Using expensive knives

[yitz]

In a recent thread about Loveless knives, several people seemed to take it for granted that an expensive knife shouldn't be used. I disagree. Although I own several knives I wouldn't want to use, I use several others that are quite expensive. Not that the money doesn't mean anything, but that's part of the fun of owning knives. So, whether your best knife is a Loveless or a nice Benchmade, store it or use it; anything that gives you pleasure.

 

[Rick]

An important consideration is whether the knife is meant to be used. Many expensive knives were made to be show pieces, and using those makes no sense. Loveless knives are now collector’s pieces IMHO. You can get a much better user for 1/4 the cost. When it comes to rare knives, you have to consider the “caretaker obligation” too. I think it’s wasteful to use something rare that many collectors would die for. I’ve seen beautiful older Japanese swords brought back from WWII that some idiot used for trimming hedges! An expensive modern ABS hunter is one thing, a rare and valuable older knife that can’t be replaced should be cared for and kept safe. Just my 2 cents.

[This message has been edited by Rick (edited 10-02-2000).]

 

[Kwaiken56]

I'm all for using your spendy blades! I can't say that I'd use a really expensive Loveless or Scagel, I have heard of a few of them being described as "a nice entry-level user."

My most expensive users are by Ed Fowler. Fortunate enough to have four of his knives, and they are solid as a rock, shaving sharp, and hold an edge probably better than any blade I own.

For the labor of love this gentleman puts into his blades over a hot forge, I just HAVE to go out and use them. If I feel I myself can't take the time out to really test a certain one, I'll lend one out to an old childhood friend who I know will put it through it's paces gutting and skinning out Coastal Blacktails down in the Big Sur area of California without abusing it.

AL


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"When loss and gain are alike to one, that is real gain.."

 

[Chefget]

Tough call

Its a thrill to keep a fine knife mint; its an equal thrill to use a fine knife! IMHO its silly to blemish a knife in a squandering fashion, yet to pick out certain pieces to be part of ones' everyday life is a justified reward! Life is too short not to carry a fine knife...personally, I'll die with plenty in the drawer!!

One could even say, at least in my case, the knives that one chooses to make a part of everyday life hold a special place; betcha one of these is gonna be with me when I go...think it should be a nice one?

-Michael

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[maddog2020]

Blahhhhhhhhh! ---> Use the knife!

I can appreciate eye candy, but I get more enjoyment out of it cutting/slicing things with it. I am saving some for my daughter when she gets a lot older, but other than that, I use the rest. I use medium priced custom folders and fixed blades.

All of my knives will be well worn, and have lots of hunting & fishing stories associated with them when I'm gone. Some will have had double duty as a screwdriver, too

LOL



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Ray 'md2020'

ATKI member #A001042

 

[Bronco]

I'm not sure if $400+ qualifies as expensive for the purposes of this discussion, but my Carson large Mod 4 folder just begs to be used and I wouldn't have it any other way

.

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Semper Fi

-Bill

 

[Rick]

Just for reference sake, I’d say an "expensive" knife is in the $1000+ range. There are very few contemporary handmades over 1K that are intended by the maker as practical daily users, or so it seems to me. Most of my expensive knives are “art” autos that I’d never dream of carrying.

Al’s Fowler is a great example of a high dollar knife that begs to be used. That particular maker wouldn’t have it any other way! But Ray, when it comes to a $4000 carved mosaic damascus and mastodon ivory auto by someone like Bill Saindon, “Blahhhhhhhhh! ---> Use the knife!” just doesn’t cut it.




[This message has been edited by Rick (edited 10-02-2000).]

 

[maddog2020]

If I could afford to buy an art auto, I would use it as well.

LOL, just kidding, Rick.

My knives aren't 'expensive' like your art autos. I'm in the user class customs like Bronco (BTW, I use/abuse my Carson's at all opportunities!).

$1000+ sounds about right for 'expensive' classification (like Tim Herman's art stuff

). Seems like lots of art autos are in the >$2,000 range.




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Ray 'md2020'

ATKI member #A001042

 

[redvenom]

You guys hit the nail right on the head when you say the difference is whether that expensive blade is an 'art' knife or a 'user'.

Personally, I never get tired of looking at art knives of carefully etched damascus, MOP inlay, and filework but would never consider using them. They are art pieces to be admired for the craftsman's mastery over knife form.

On the other hand, 'using' knives should be enjoyed for the maker's mastery over knife function. As ol' Bob Terzuola mentions in his book, it is sad to see great knives locked away in a safe never to be used as they were intended. While you may depreciate their value, for knife nuts there are few pleasures better than using a great knife. Hell, my (future) kids will probably use my carefully hoarded, irreplaceble knives to pry open tins when I'm gone

However, having said that, I know I'll probably be agonizing over what to do if somebody gave me a Bill Moran blade

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"Praise not the day until evening has come;a sword until it is tried; ice until it has been crossed; beer until it has been drunk" - Viking proverb

 

[yitz]

I agree with most of the above. My using knives are a Fowler or Sinyard bowie for hiking and a Hartsfield and sebenza as everyday carry knives. I don't know about "caretaker obligation" though. I can see it for a historical knife, or even a pure art knife, but a Loveless hunter? I say if someone wants to use a Loveless or Moran for everyday cuuting, more power to them. (I don't know about Scagels, they may be more in the historical category.)

[This message has been edited by yitz (edited 10-03-2000).]

 

[Rick]

Yitz, I think that when a no-frills Loveless hunter with so-so workmanship packs an asking price of $1500+, it has entered into the “historical” realm. You could buy four hunters with better F&F for that kind of dough. I put Loveless and Moran in the same boat as Scagel (save that they’re still kickin’

). People aren’t paying that kind of cash for the knives because they’re great users, but because they’re a rare part of knife history and evolution.

 

[Gus Kalanzis]

Good topic Yitz.
I own a couple or three art knives. They were made by makers that do not compromise when they are making "show knives" and I have total faith in the people that made them, but I have not used them.

On the other hand the following knives are in my daily carry rotation.

Apogee DA most of the time but not in the office.
Dozier in D2 small fixed blade. He made 3 different kydex sheaths for this knife so it is easy to keep it handy.
Simonich small Wharncliff in Talonite.
(Picked this one up from Les and I love the little sucker the knife that is, Les I just like

A couple of nice folders by Randy Gilbreth.
One of Fred Perrin's Tribal La-Griffs.

Others by Larry Chew, Rob S., and Matt Lamey are in the works or about to be started.

Using any of these knives is nothing but a pleasure and a splurge, since I could use something from a factory and still get the job done, but "Life is too short to carry and ugly knife"* . These puppies just cut better and longer than the factory knives I use and the folders have actions that are smoother than anything I have yet to handle from a factory. I guess I could sell them and drive something else besides a Buick, but cars are not what I am into as far as using disposable income.

* That was my signature for a while the phrase was orginated by Steve F. otherwise known as Calvin Cooledge.


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" The real art of living is too keep alive the longing in human beings to become greater versions of themselves." Laurens Van der Post.
In memory of James Mattis

 

[yitz]

Rick: I guess I differentiate Loveless from Scagel because there are just a lot more aroun in a lot better condition. The question isn't really whether the knife is "worth" the money it costs, it should just depend on whether the owner enjoys usin such a distinctive piece for everyday work. Even though I don't abuse my Fowler or Hartsfield in everyday use, I do get a certain pleasure from the idea of using a $1400 knife to lop of branches in the woods. It doesn't ruin the knife, but does make it worth somewhat less. It's worth it to me. There are much cheaper watches than the Rolex I wear that keep better time. I just enjoy wearing a thing of mechanical beauty.

 

[Paracelsus]

I lean towards using or at least being Willing to use my knives. Form and Function are Art. I don't think a knife has to be embellished or expensive to be an Art knife.

I don't own any Loveless, Moran, Scagel, or other highly collectible and expensive knives. I can understand why some folks collect these, but the idea of using a Loveless knife just seems ridiculous.

As has been pointed out, if it is the using of the Best knife for the job that gives you pleasure, there are many makers who produce a Superior knife for much less money. $400 to $500 will buy a Fisk, or Dunn, or Fogg hunter. I own a number of ABS Mastersmith knives (Winkler, Tomes, Crowell, Caffrey). I carry many of my knives from time to time, and use them. But since I have many knives, some see much more use than others.

The amount of use a knife gets is not really correlated with expense. I am looking forward to receiving a plain finished, uncarved sliver from Tim Herman with a D2 blade. This knife will be a daily carry user. Tim is making it to be used, and I intend to use it. It's not going to be cheap, but I think it's will be worth the money. I will not be selling this knife. Ever.

I have re-polished the satin finish of my Crowell Hunter. It looks better now than it did when I bought it on the secondary market. I have no plans to sell this knife (or any of my knives at this point), so using it gives me great pleasure. There are many many fine makers who make great knives that Beg to be used.

But when you are willing to pay $2000 for a similar knife from Loveless, you are no longer buying Function. You are buying Art on the open marketplace. Who made it matters much more than how well it was made. These knives have ceased to be knives, IMO. They are treasures to be fondled, played with, and enjoyed. But using it would immediately destroy more than half of your investment dollar. Why pay so much for a using knife that you know is not better than many Much cheaper knives?

Paracelsus

My Knives

 

[mgkrame]

Originally posted by yitz:
I do get a certain pleasure from the idea of using a $1400 knife to lop of branches in the woods. It doesn't ruin the knife, but does make it worth somewhat less. It's worth it to me. There are much cheaper watches than the Rolex I wear that keep better time. I just enjoy wearing a thing of mechanical beauty.[/B]

Exactly my philosophy, besides, why worry so much if you can have the maker refurbish the knife (or watch) at a later date. I base my judgment on the following questions, "Is the knife designed to be used?" "Am I purchasing the knife as an investment, or just because I love the knife?"

To date, I've never made an investment purchase, so everything I own that I can carry legally, I use from time to time.