Using vs Collecting vs Both

I would like more input from people of different age groups. What are your guys thoughts on collecting? What are your thoughts on collecting vs using, and why there is sometimes animosity towards collectors?

I think we need collectors because these people are sometimes the most knowledgeable on their section of interest. These living museums preserve these items and info to hopefully be shared with future generations.

The way I see it there are different types of collectors and users. Many individuals cross over these lines and are actually several different types at a time. What kind of collector are you?

I must say for me most knives in my collection I bought going "this will be a great knife to use" and the knife never gets used. I mean how many tactical folders does one man need in a lifetime. My edc already covers most everything I need in a blade so those knives I had visions of tucking into my waistbands sit tucked in boxes instead. Hopefully I will get married and have kids and grandkids one day to pass these suckers on to. (Another problem with my generation, no one is getting married and having kids, atleast in western cultures. This is because "me first, My happiness should be constant and is everything" culture has led to rampant divorces shattering my generations trust in marriage; thus we won't get a wife and start collecting kids! Different topic for another time)

Sometimes I wish there was a division of knife wielding ninjas or blade using special ops who could appreciate my collection, I would give each one of them a beautiful knife to use. However I know that the people who use knives the most are often the most hardcore strictly users and wouldn't appreciate my knives finer points. They would just want a blade that works. Soldiers and Police men and forest ranger types mostly just see knives as tools. These men are the real users. Yet every day it seems more and more high priced tacticals are coming out. Who are these knives for? High payed top ranking paramilitary hit squads working under drug cartels who need a pimped out yet solid knife to make a fashion statement?

Thus these knives which certainly have the potential to make great users mostly end up in our collections. Ultimately the only "strict users" making use of their Hinderers and Striders are indeed knife enthusiasts themselves and that expensive knife they use is a collection piece. They acquired because even if they won't admit it, they wanted something special to cut with. If they were really users to the exclusion of collecting then any knife that could hack it would do. (I know some Military and Spec Ops units order or are donated blades like this, but to them it is just a tool of the job, a means to an end.)
 
One thing that motivates purchase is "upside potential". A CPK contributor/seller and I recently had a conversation on a particular knife that is very desirable. It had some condition issues vs price. I wanted the knife.....and some other buyer may find the value..... But I had to pass.
 
Keep in mind that just as different sizes and types of screwdrivers are made to fit particular needs, so are knives along with specialized steels.
 
Georgecatl said:
One thing that motivates purchase is "upside potential". A CPK contributor/seller and I recently had a conversation on a particular knife that is very desirable. It had some condition issues vs price. I wanted the knife.....and some other buyer may find the value..... But I had to pass.
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I really, honestly, try not to participate if I'm the one who starts the thread. In the case of upside potential, any discussion only really relates to collectors, because anyone buying a knife for perceived upside potential is doing so as a collector, since any use diminishes value immediately, just like the first day's depreciation on a new car. If others start conversation on the topic, I would eventually participate but hope it stays more on the underlying issues of user vs collector, more a comparative than a collector's handy helper, lol.
 
TRfromMT said:
I agree with heat-treat, and find a lot to think about in his post, agreeing with much of it.

Having said that, I disagree with this: ...But it saddens me to think of all the creative output that may never be preserved for future generations if no one cares to collect it."


The quality of knives Nathan produces need little preserving. They'll last for a million years :D
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;) Yes, Nathan's knives probably don't need a lot of pampering and of course you know I was referring to the Arts at large. :thumbup:

But, even if we restrict the discussion to knives...what if all of us stopped buying knives when we had what was realistically needed? The burgeoning knife market of today would cease and all the current talent would need to find some other outlet, if they could. I am already finding myself with what can only be considered a First World problem. In the past 3 months I have acquired an EDC, Field Knife, and just got a Light Chopper. Except for kitchen duties, what now? I have 90% of my cutting needs met and could just stop buying knives. I am a user/collector in that I have bought every knife I own with the intention of using it. Searching for that ONE that will resonate so much that everything else seems superfluous. That search has resulted in a small (relative) number of knives, some having received very little use. But at this point, except for aesthetics, I am basically there. Now what?

The Arts have always needed patrons.

So, without a doubt, collecting is a waste of resources yet it has also allowed humans to rise beyond sheer necessity.
 
The arts fill a human need. And I would argue that you are stating your opinion about collecting being a waste of resources and "without a doubt" is used trying to support your statement as if it were proven fact. We each have an opinion. But stating it as absolute fact, problematic to the argument.
 
betzner said:
The arts fill a human need. And I would argue that you are stating your opinion about collecting being a waste of resources and "without a doubt" is used trying to support your statement as if it were proven fact. We each have an opinion. But stating it as absolute fact, problematic to the argument.
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Point taken. I was trying to distill my comment to reference basic primal needs. Think earthworms rather than people. Not trying to raise my opinion above others.
 
heat_treat said:
Point taken. I was trying to distill my comment to reference basic primal needs. Think earthworms rather than people. Not trying to raise my opinion above others.
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No sorry about it. I'm just trying to be a counterpoint where it makes sense. And appreciate your thoughts and comments. Every post adds a new twist to the theme.
 
Good thread betzner!

I'd say I'm both but leaning more towards a user. That'll most likely change a bit as I get older. I've owned knives most of my life, but it's only the last few years that I've started purchasing higher quality fixed blades from companies such as CPK and Survive!.

We are very fortunate to have alot of antique furniture which has been passed down the family. I'm still amazed to this day how at the level of craftsmanship back in those days (also applies to buildings), then I see what's on offer in most stores these days and I sometimes shake my head. Unfortunately it's not just the consumers in my generation that don't have the same appreciation for well made products which can also appeal to the eye. Many corporations/companies generally place profits above and beyond everything else, which inevitably leads to mass produced products made from cheaper materials in most cases. Obviously much of it comes down to supply and demand, so hopefully we'll start "demanding" better products which are made in our own countries.
That's why it's refreshing to see quite a few custom and semi-custom makers on this forum making some really good blades!
 
Karoi said:
Good thread betzner!

I'd say I'm both but leaning more towards a user. That'll most likely change a bit as I get older. I've owned knives most of my life, but it's only the last few years that I've started purchasing higher quality fixed blades from companies such as CPK and Survive!.

We are very fortunate to have alot of antique furniture which has been passed down the family. I'm still amazed to this day how at the level of craftsmanship back in those days (also applies to buildings), then I see what's on offer in most stores these days and I sometimes shake my head. Unfortunately it's not just the consumers in my generation that don't have the same appreciation for well made products which can also appeal to the eye. Many corporations/companies generally place profits above and beyond everything else, which inevitably leads to mass produced products made from cheaper materials in most cases. Obviously much of it comes down to supply and demand, so hopefully we'll start "demanding" better products which are made in our own countries.
That's why it's refreshing to see quite a few custom and semi-custom makers on this forum making some really good blades!
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Yes. Collectors don't just come from nowhere. They come from a pre-existing condition called love for knives, fascinated and fostered from prior use.
 
Corporations these days practice built in obsolecense. They believe customers all want the lowest prices and so deliver cheap low quality products. There is none of that age old pride in craftsmanship. Company A is worried if they make a product that lasts 25 years and costs 100$ while other company B making products that last 5 years for $50, customers will buy the 50$ item. Furthermore they will buy that 50$ item five times over 25 years. Company A feels if they don't design their products to go obsolete in 5 years they will miss out on that profit, and the customers are too dumb and want a cheaper price anyway. (ultimately it costs more)

This is not true for all marketsnbut is true for many.

I have seen many old cars still on the road. I doubt I will see many of todays models out in 30 years. Those 67 Camaros will still be chuggin' along.
 
Let me post this as a follow up question for the "collector" side of the discussion...

Why are you motivated to collect? I've hear "stewardship" mentioned. I've heard "curator" mentioned. What are your reasons.

And a follow up for someone who may be strictly in the "user" side of the discussion, and adamant that "Spending XXX on a knife is crazy!"...
What might pass as a reasonable justification for collecting? What would make it more palatable to you?
 
I am glad collectors exist, because I love seeing their collections (and I believe the collectors get a kick out of seeing other people appreciate what they have collected). That transaction is part of what makes people do it. I don't have what it takes to be a collector because I like using nice stuff I am not supposed to, and I value the freedom that comes from having just a few (nice) things instead of a bunch of stuff to keep up with. However, I do have what it takes to share passion and show excitement and appreciation for a collector's hard work, so that makes me an important part of collecting.

Having said that, I think that the aesthetic may be changing some. I may be way off the mark, but I think the appreciation for a user that is all super worn, but loved and maintained, and shows it's history and character is growing, while the appreciation for a pristine and unused piece is waning. One of the coolest knives I have ever seen was being used to cut barbecue in a little dive barbecue joint that had been sharpened so many times it almost didn't even look like a knife anymore.
 
TRfromMT said:
Let me post this as a follow up question for the "collector" side of the discussion...

Why are you motivated to collect? I've hear "stewardship" mentioned. I've heard "curator" mentioned. What are your reasons.

And a follow up for someone who may be strictly in the "user" side of the discussion, and adamant that "Spending XXX on a knife is crazy!"...
What might pass as a reasonable justification for collecting? What would make it more palatable to you?
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I started collecting like every other collector. Using led to a greater appreciation for the knives I used. I can't go back 50 years and remember any specific motivation, no one could. What I bought attracted me visually and practically at first. I remember when, one day, I realized that some makers were more sought after than others. At that point, I stood back and realized I had a bunch of knives that had nothing tying them together, like all daggers, or all hunters, or all one maker, etc. So I began to try and sell what I had collected, with the intention of buying knive s just as artistic, but by makers who were more sought after. In selling, I found that my tastes matched lots of people, because I was able to sell the knives for what I had paid, pretty much. Concurrently, I had begun buying from a well known maker and probably 90% of my collection was in his knives. Loved it, until I became disenchanted with the maker, for really good reasons - having to do with inclusiveness . I took a year to sell them all so as not to hurt his sales or values. ***************EDITED OUT************************************************************************************************and eventually specialized in one particular maker, though expanded beyond that. When you mention curate and stewardship, that would relate particularly to that maker's knives. Those are just words that describe maintaining continuous and forever ownership, to some degree for the benefit of all knife collectors. I don't look at it that way, but those who use the words attach that meaning to them. I have them because I love them.

As to the follow up question, the comment that spending xxx on a knife is crazy is an opinion, n othing more. What justifies collecting? Why do I need to justify it to anyone but myself? I justify it by being expert enough to know, for example, when an art dagger that I love is underpriced and buy it,knowing it's worth twice what I paid . But I never buy a knife I don't love to begin with. That's rule #1. Many times I'll buy a knife I love knowing I will sell it soon, but I sell for what I paid, so I can familiarize myself with someone's work. There are at least two well known CPK collectors I've sold such purchases to without regard for profit.,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,EDITED OUT

You might now ask why I buy Nathan's pieces. That's my secret. Based on knowledge. Does it appear to be a complete U-turn in what I collect. Yes, it appears to be. But my primary collection, ie, not the CPKs, are by only a few makers whose work cannot be replaced and often is impossible to find, maybe one or two good ones every decade. I no longer add to it. I consider it complete.

As to the CPK's, I can say here I cannot see and have no reason to contemplate selling anything but one here and there to help others with their collections - at cost.


More info than I wanted to give to answer a question. ----------------------edited out---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


SORRY, BUT I JUST COULD NOT DISCUSS CERTAIN INFORMATION PERSONAL TO ME, THOUGH IT IS PART OF THE ANSWER YOU SEEK. Sorry I butchered this post all up. Anyone who wants to know me, or wants to pick the brain, glad to answer any pm's. I have spent the last several years buying less, at the same time attracting around 10 collectors (one at a time, thank god) with all sorts of questions, and pretty much became a mentor to each, giving back what I've learned over time, but primarily with emphasis on making sure none of them ever got screwed on knife deals.
 
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It may be an addictive thing in some people. Some people may be financially irresponsible and just need something to blow their money on, never having tried gambling or drugs. Atleast this is what I think alot of "anticollectors" believe.

For me a large reason for my collection is I simply love blades and want to hold and own examples. I started out loving all swords particularly Japanese, very interested in Asian history as a hobby. Somehow I've yet to ever own a sword at all. I was taken by the idea of how men used to carry swords to defend themselves and their family. Knives as well for utility tasks. The modern equivilent being a gun, which you can't carry around in Canada. I loved knives and blades though anyway so that is what I would carry.

I looked for designs that were good dor urban carry and SD and just kept finding blades I loved and wanted to try, each seeming more and more perfect for the role. For example I thought the Karambit folder was a great urban SD blade, but my tastes moved away from it for various reasons. I had to explore more styles looking for designs I loved.

Fast forward and I have found many knives I love each one good for a different niche or outfit or weather. I loved them all so I kept them; now I have a collection. Over this journey I grew to appreciate certain qualities in knives and loved the feeling of owning those knives. Again it doesn't make sense to anyone but me.

As I said before all the knives I buy I bought because I thought, this knife would be great to use in this scenario. Eventually I had too many to use, multiples being useful in overlapping scenarios so I keep some of them in the box waiting to be used. All my knives have been carried and used atleast once however many mostly sit in pristine condition waiting for the time they are needed.
 
I don't really understand collecting, but I don't hold it against those who do. I make enough money to be able to afford some nice stuff, but not enough to justify having nice stuff that does nothing but sit in a box. So I 'collect' but rarely have many at a time, and they almost all get used.
 
I'm a collector more than a user especially for fixed blades. There aren't many situations where I'd really need a big knife but I usually have a folder on me. For me it's the excitement of handling a new knife and figuring out what I like. Maybe I'm just having a midlife crisis, but I've been itching to have some heirloom pieces that I would be proud to pass down to my children and their children. I want to use those pieces though since "grandpa's knife" doesn't quite have the same sentimental value if it sat on a shelf for years instead of being carried in my pocket or on my belt. I still haven't found the knife I'd consider to be that knife which is why I keep getting more. I'm hoping the CPK folder will finish my search :D
 
I actually started as a collector, but not of real knives. My dad's brother was a knife lover, and he loved some of the most ridiculous Gil Hibben designs. I was into throwing knives like a crazy man, I bought United Cutlery knives, subscribed to Cold Steel's catalog, it was all very silly.

I matured(if that word can possibly be applied to me) into appreciating knives through hunting and growing up on a farm but I was always a half step from geeking out about them. I always wanted our $.50 butcher knives to morph into Boromir'd trusty dagger.

Currently, I'm a user who has collected more knives than I can use. Weird right? I have exactly one custom knife that I couldn't imagine using, it's from Jac Wilde.

It's been a funny journey.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk
 
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