USMC Combat knife comparison

[MacGyver125]

My preference would be the Leatherneck SF. Stabbing penetration benefits from a point that is centered and sharp, and the SF has the most centered point. Also the SF has a more ovalled handle, which helps with indexing. The steel is slightly thicker, and D2 is good steel. SF over tanto, b/c a tanto point is not so good for penetration - it has strength to prevent breakage when stabbing into hard objects like armor, but the geometry is relatively poor against softer targets, for which the best geometry is a dagger point.

I would however look into getting the top edge of the SF sharpened, removing the top guard, and getting a good kydex sheath for it that will work with your gear set-up.

I definitely am liking what I've been seeing of Cold Steel...how do they hold up durability wise compared to their Ka-Bar brethron? Yeah, I definitely plan to continue using the kydex sheath instead of leather or nylon.

Please forward to 6:00 for a very brief description of the function of the secondary point as it relates to the snap cut.
I like the Warcraft the most for the collection but the Recon Tanto better than the Leatherneck just because of weight. Recon is lighter.

yeah I think of a snap cut as more of a dueling manouver than one used in a panicked CQB stab-and-slash interaction

Agreed. That's more of a technique you'd use in a duel than you would with a combat knife.

I'm not concerned about the weight at all. I actually prefer a heavier knife, which is part of MANY reasons why I picked these specific knives. When I carry everything else I carry, a heavy knife feels like a feather.
Other than weight, what do you like about the Recon Tanto over the Leatherneck?

When I differentiate between combat, fighting and dueling knives:
Dueling knives are set up by the maker or designer primarily for countering folk also armed with knives (which is pretty unlikely). Fighting knives are dedicated, non utility (of whatever style) knives for scuffling with humans armed with everything from nothing on up, and combat knives are (like I said earlier) 90+% utility/troop knives that you could fight with if need be. Maybe I'm a little ocd in breaking it up like that but it helps me.
The kabar was designed as a combat knife by my definition-utility and weapon-so it's not perfect for either. I prefer a shorter (5-6") knife for either purpose-faster to access as an antipersonnel scraper, and easier to do utility stuff with as well.
I'd go for the regular point-snap/tip cuts work better with a short blade than with a sword-but if a guy's trying to put an AK butt through your ribs a snap cut isn't going to disrupt all that momentum.
I like the D2 mostly because of the single guard-they're not on your list, but at least look at the new Kabar/Ek series, just a thought. Welcome to the forum, btw.

By your definition, I'm after a fighting knife, but I've never heard anyone else describe knives that way. Mostly when I think of a fighting knife, I think of a butterfly or flip knife...something someone brings to a fist fight...when I think of a combat knife, I think of something someone brings to a gun fight. And I've never heard of a dueling knife. I definitely wouldn't want to try to deflect a knife with a knife...seems like a good way to lose the fight. A utility knife is used for non combat applications, such as digging, etc...and that's not what I'm gonna be using it for.

Agreed. I do like the handle of the D2 the best. I just am still unsure which is better between standard and tanto blades. I saw the EK series, but they're not really my thing. The handle on the traditional USMC Combat knife is what I want...the only thing I'm trying to decide is manufacturer and blade shape.

Maybe take a look at Ontario's SP6 with an 8" blade and a better point geometry, shown on the bottom.

It is shown here with the Ontario SP1, also an excellent knife imo

I like the look of both Ontario Knives...they look very similar to the Ka-Bar D2 that I'm considering...my only issue with the D2 is it costs 2-3 times as much as the others on my list.

 

[Gaston444]

That helps a lot...so you feel that the Black Tanto KA-Bar is the best of the first 4, and the Black Ka-Bar Fighter is the best overall? What made you decide against the Cold Steel knives?

I've actually owned for a long time the Cold Steel Recon Tanto. The blade was slightly curved laterally from cooling, nothing that affects usefulness but a sign of loose standards... The curved profile shape goes against thrusting efficiency compared to a straighter Tanto blade, and the point angle is less acute with Cold Steel Tantos vs the Ka-Bar: You want to get as much profile acuteness in a Tanto point as possible, because the point's edge is dull and impossible to really sharpen (which is why point-slicing will not work as well with a factory-stock Tanto point, in addition to the acuteness being usually better on a conventional clip-point design that has little belly: Deep bellies tend to "open" the edge duller towards the point, ruining point-slicing through clothing on almost all such knives: Almost all knives lose a lot of edge sharpness towards the tip, bellied ones the worst).

Other things I don't like about Cold Steel is the Kraton checkering, which is all over and so wear in an ugly way in the higher exposed spots, while the channel-ribbed design on Ka-Bar will wear better. That's cosmetic only, and the Cold Steel grip design is good. The best Ka-Bar-sized Cold Steel fixed blade is the San Mai III SRK: It is deeply hollow ground and an excellent design, if small at 6"... The non-San Mai SRK is flat ground, dull and not in the same league.

One thing I always hated with all Cold Steel knives is that they seem very sharp initially, but once the excellent edge polish is worn off you realize the edge angle is quite open and the edge thick, so just touching up the existing edge without a high polish will not get you even 50 per cent of the sharpness performance back... Making the actual edge geometry thin is a huge ordeal, probably compared to anything by Ka-Bar... Thin edges are everything, and Cold Steel has them on folders mostly, maybe the SRK but that's about it (even the convexed Trailmaster is really thick nowadays). I had all their 80s Tantos and they were all thick edged, and the point geometry was not acute enough for serious tip-slicing.

Gaston

 

[Cadian]

I have used both the KA-BAR 1211 & CS leatherneck SF ( SK5) models & I like the leatherneck SF more. It is just a more robust knife; thicker blade, guard, tang & pommel. All so the leatherneck SF comes with a secure-ex which gives you more carry options, then the standard leather sheath with KA-BAR supplies. The KA-BAR is a good looking, classic design, but the stick tang & thine guard are weak spots.

 

[Chris Larrikin]

I'm just going to throw this one out there. I'm not sure if it is within your budget (apologies if I missed that ) but it might be worth looking at the work of forum member Nathan The Machinist. He makes what he calls a combat shiv in 6" & 8" and uses very hard use steels like CPM3V. His performance tests have shown some pretty awesome results. By all accounts they are excellent quality and his heat treatment for 3V is about as good as it gets. A search for them should show results, otherwise have a look at the For Sale: Fixed Blades area of yhe knife maker's exchange.

Edit: here's a link to the spec's: http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1337868-Two-8-quot-3V-Shiv-micarta-G10

 

[Kwon Kwang]

For your use, OP, here are a few things you don't need to concern yourself with:

-Edge retention
-ease of sharpening
-polishability

Here are some things you do need to be concerned with:

-point strength
-toughness
-slip resistance on handle
-ergonomics
-rust/weather resistance
-blade geometry

For these reasons, I think it's obvious the Leatherneck Tanto is the one you want. This actually happens to be my single favorite knife because it's about getting a job done and nothing else. The tanto point is stronger not just because of its shape, but because there's more steel near the tip of the knife. Furthermore, while the snap cut is cool but not suited to your use, you'll be happy to know that the secondary tip on the tanto means the blade pierces while it cuts during a stroke.

For your use I'd actually recommend the Krupp 4116 version of the knife simply because that steel is very tough and will not rust on you in your use; D2 is a tool steel and can rust (perhaps not on most of the blade, but on the edge) if you don't take care of it. The Krupp versions also happen to be recently discontinued and are cheaper.

The Leathernecks are, despite the ad copy, both hollow ground to a thin edge. CS has great QC and does a beautiful job on fit and finish.

Despite all this, I'd recommend you instead pony up for a 3V Tai Pan (they're DLC coated) and earn all of my envy. Unlike the Leatherneck, the Tai Pan was designed for exactly one purpose.

 

[cut it out]

Whatever you decide may the lord watch over you and thank you for your bravery!!! Sounds like you preparing for battle and I like how you are focused on the mission. SOG also makes some affordable knives. The full size seal might be a good option as well.

 

[Cobalt]

I would recommend the CS GI tanto. It will do everything all the others mentioned above will do and it is tougher than all of them

 

[MacGyver125]

Other things I don't like about Cold Steel is the Kraton checkering, which is all over and so wear in an ugly way in the higher exposed spots, while the channel-ribbed design on Ka-Bar will wear better.

What do those two terms mean?

I have used both the KA-BAR 1211 & CS leatherneck SF ( SK5) models & I like the leatherneck SF more. It is just a more robust knife; thicker blade, guard, tang & pommel. All so the leatherneck SF comes with a secure-ex which gives you more carry options, then the standard leather sheath with KA-BAR supplies. The KA-BAR is a good looking, classic design, but the stick tang & thine guard are weak spots.

Yeah, the stick tang gave me concern...I do like the wider tang of the CS Leatherneck.

...it might be worth looking at the work of forum member Nathan The Machinist. He makes what he calls a combat shiv in 6" & 8" and uses very hard use steels like CPM3V.

Looks like good work, but it doesn't fit the profile of my mission set...the handle isn't meaty enough, and the blade isn't black. It MUST look like (or look similar to) something that was issued.

For your use, OP, here are a few things you don't need to concern yourself with:

-Edge retention
-ease of sharpening
-polishability

Here are some things you do need to be concerned with:

-point strength
-toughness
-slip resistance on handle
-ergonomics
-rust/weather resistance
-blade geometry

My thoughts EXACTLY

For these reasons, I think it's obvious the Leatherneck Tanto is the one you want. This actually happens to be my single favorite knife because it's about getting a job done and nothing else. The tanto point is stronger not just because of its shape, but because there's more steel near the tip of the knife. Furthermore, while the snap cut is cool but not suited to your use, you'll be happy to know that the secondary tip on the tanto means the blade pierces while it cuts during a stroke.

For your use I'd actually recommend the Krupp 4116 version of the knife simply because that steel is very tough and will not rust on you in your use; D2 is a tool steel and can rust (perhaps not on most of the blade, but on the edge) if you don't take care of it. The Krupp versions also happen to be recently discontinued and are cheaper.

The Leathernecks are, despite the ad copy, both hollow ground to a thin edge. CS has great QC and does a beautiful job on fit and finish.

Despite all this, I'd recommend you instead pony up for a 3V Tai Pan (they're DLC coated) and earn all of my envy. Unlike the Leatherneck, the Tai Pan was designed for exactly one purpose.

How do I tell if it's the 4116 version? I found one at a local knife shop for $60, but the guy said he didn't even know they made two versions, and the CS website only shows one version, D2 steel with DLC coating. Is that the one you mean?
The Tai Pan is a good knife, but it's not in the same category as what I need. The Recon Tanto or SRK would be the closest alternative to what I'm looking for.

Whatever you decide may the lord watch over you and thank you for your bravery!!! Sounds like you preparing for battle and I like how you are focused on the mission. SOG also makes some affordable knives. The full size seal might be a good option as well.

Thank you very much. I really appreciate that.

I would recommend the CS GI tanto. It will do everything all the others mentioned above will do and it is tougher than all of them

Looks like a great knife!! The ability to throw is consistently might come in handy too. Thanks!

 

[Kwon Kwang]

How do I tell if it's the 4116 version? I found one at a local knife shop for $60, but the guy said he didn't even know they made two versions, and the CS website only shows one version, D2 steel with DLC coating. Is that the one you mean?
The Tai Pan is a good knife, but it's not in the same category as what I need. The Recon Tanto or SRK would be the closest alternative to what I'm looking for.

The coating is how you tell. The DLC coating is going to be glossier (as well as more durable) than the teflon coating on the 4116 version.

I also second Cobalt's recommendation of the GI Tanto. That knife is an absolute beast. Completely disregard the bargain bin price, that thing is the single best value of any tactical fixed blade.

[video=youtube;uHLIBtB8BOY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHLIBtB8BOY[/video]
[video=youtube;6qV0zaN83zM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6qV0zaN83zM[/video]

I own both 4116 Leathernecks, a GI Tanto and two versions of the Recon Tanto. All excellent knives. I read somewhere about how someone gave a Recon Tanto to his nephew, who was going off to fight in Afghanistan. Terrorists entered the building he was in, and his tanto went right through a pocketed AK mag and into a then-dead terrorist. :thumbup:

 

[Cobalt]

For your use, OP, here are a few things you don't need to concern yourself with:

-Edge retention
-ease of sharpening
-polishability

Here are some things you do need to be concerned with:

-point strength
-toughness
-slip resistance on handle
-ergonomics
-rust/weather resistance
-blade geometry

For these reasons, I think it's obvious the Leatherneck Tanto is the one you want. This actually happens to be my single favorite knife because it's about getting a job done and nothing else. The tanto point is stronger not just because of its shape, but because there's more steel near the tip of the knife. Furthermore, while the snap cut is cool but not suited to your use, you'll be happy to know that the secondary tip on the tanto means the blade pierces while it cuts during a stroke.

For your use I'd actually recommend the Krupp 4116 version of the knife simply because that steel is very tough and will not rust on you in your use; D2 is a tool steel and can rust (perhaps not on most of the blade, but on the edge) if you don't take care of it. The Krupp versions also happen to be recently discontinued and are cheaper.

The Leathernecks are, despite the ad copy, both hollow ground to a thin edge. CS has great QC and does a beautiful job on fit and finish.

Despite all this, I'd recommend you instead pony up for a 3V Tai Pan (they're DLC coated) and earn all of my envy. Unlike the Leatherneck, the Tai Pan was designed for exactly one purpose.

This is completely true. Tanto points are designed to penetrate armor. A tanto is much better overall as a combat design. They just don't look as nice to many people. The leatherneck looks nice. Still for the money the GI tanto is a knife that everyone should own. The taipan is awesome, problem is for that kind of money I expect a non kraton handle.

 

[Angus McGunnigle]

Get a cold steel SRK and then also buy a smaller, stabby little evil thing like a SOG mini pentagon dagger.

 

[Mistwalker]

When my nephew deployed to Iraq more than a decade ago with 1st Chem., I gave him a Ka-Bar D2 extreme as a parting gift because I liked the look of it better than the original I carried. Today I would probably give him a custom made by Ed Martin, but the Ka-Bar served him fine in the field and he still carries it on camping trips today.

 

[Wolf7]

Here is my .02, I have cheap Chinese/Taiwanes version of traditional Ka-Bar that I received as free gift.
It's seemed big, heavy, solid knife that would be great for property clearing camping duty.
After the winter storms, I was clearing property and chopping fallen big tree limbs.
Result, loose wobbly tang and leather washers!
On impact round handle would twist in my hand and on follow up strike would hit wood with flat side of blade instead of edge!

So, my advise to you would be don't buy any model that has leather stacked round handle!!!!
Leather is affected by cold, heat, humidity etc it makes it dry up, crack or rot depending on the "sand box " yo will be operating in!!!

If my life depended on knife than I would choose one of the Ontario versions, drop point or clip point, with no top guard plastic ergonomic oval shape handle, bonus it looks like an issue version!

If your primary mission is fighting than best choice is modified drop point that has tip closer to center line, clip point is second best. Always sharpen top edge, useful for back hand cuts!!!
Tanto point is only useful for prying, digging or trying to puncture "tank armor" or trying to smash through ceramic armor plates in enemy vests ex: Russian, Chinese etc.
If enemies wearing loose thin type of clothing, than sharp narrow thin point is much better choice for deeper easier penetration.

IMHO after much testing, I came to conclusion that tanto point is not very good at stubbing or slashing on most knives, unless it's on katana sword!

It's nothing more than a two or three side sharpened chisel, which is tool not a weapon.