USN Mark 1 Utility Knife/ Navy deck knife- drawings/dimensions/blueprints

riversidedep said:
Awesome collection and great info! Considering this post and others I've seen from you showing your collection, I wish you would have joined Bladeforums 20 years ago!
Click to expand...
I was on Knifeforums for several years. The world intervened, I had to devote my attention to other things, and so forth.
 
tltt said:
Kabar-blueprint-page-0001.jpg
.
Kabar-blueprint-page-0002.jpg
.
Kabar-blueprint-page-0003.jpg
.
Kabar-blueprint-page-0004.jpg
.
Kabar-blueprint-page-0005.jpg
.
Kabar-blueprint-page-0006.jpg
.
Click to expand...

Interesting: In the drawing there is not that height-offset of the blade to the handle that all the actual production knives I've seen have. (Once seen, cannot be unseen.) Who messed up there?
 
It seems finding the original USN Mark 1 blueprints might be tough. While the website you linked [shipcanvas.com] has a partial drawing (possibly 394532 or 394832), there's no guarantee of a full archive for these old USN drawings. However, knife communities and forums might be helpful. You could try searching online knife forums or contacting custom.
 
eveled said:
To the OP’s question. I don’t think the NAVY had a blueprint just a list of specs. I think I’ve seen the specs before but never a blueprint

Each manufacturer would have their own in house blueprints.
Click to expand...
That is exactly true. The Navy put out specs and trusted the manufacturers to provide/modify knives that were, more or less, already in production. Colonial may have been the only manufacturer to propose a specific design. That's why they made about a dozen (or so) prototypes with clear handles; that way the War Department/Navy reps could see how handle was fitted to blade, etc.
 
Choctaw Dan said:
As for the Mark II "Ka-Bar" knife, it was originally a NAVY knife, intended to replace the less-than-satisfactory Mark I's. That's why they are designated "Mark II."

Camillus Cutlery made the first of them, using War Department drawings and specifications. Camillus discovered a flaw in the design -- when dropped just-so, the pommel broke off and rendered the knife useless. They made an interim correction and notified all the other manufacturers, who did likewise.

The USMC was also looking for a knife, liked the Mark II, and placed their own order with the same four manufacturers. The first shipment they received came from Ka-Bar, and the rest is history.

One can still find a few USN-marked Camillus Mark II's with the threaded nut holding the pommel to the tang, like this:
View attachment 2530497

There are no USMC-marked Camillus Mark II's with the threaded pommel. In fact none can be found, with either marking, by any other makers. Instead, the first-generation pommels are peened and/or welded to the threaded section, like this first-generation Ka-Bar:

View attachment 2530499

Later Mark II knives by all four manufacturers have the rectangular tangs, usually pinned to the pommels. That means the drawing, posted by T tltt , is for the second-generation.


Source: U.S. Military Knives Bayonets & Machetes Book III by M.H. Cole, and from my personal observations
Click to expand...

The 1219C2 was based on the Union Cutlery (Kabar) Cutlery model 71. Union Cutlery sent the first 1219C2s to the Marines in December 1942 and were made with the split nut construction. A hold over from the Model 71 construction. They failed spectacularly as the nuts kept loosening up with heavy use and a change order was implemented, shifting construction to peened/welded. These first knives were stamped simply KABAR and no USN or USMC because the requirement to branch stamp the knives had not yet been implemented as the Navy had not accepted the 1219C2 until after the first batch was made and they added the branch stamp to their specifications.

The Navy then adopted the 1219C2, designating it the MK2 as they already had a MK1. The MK1 "knife, deck/utility" never had the detailed specs that the 1219C2 had. The Navy simply said "we need knives with a blade 5 inches long and about 1-1/4 wide". If a manufacture had a hunting knife model met "specs" of a 5" x 1-1/4" blade, it was approved. Hence the wide variation and number of manufacturers. Wood, plastic, or aluminum pommels. Union simplified product by using the same flat steel disk used on 1219C2s/USN MK2s.

Camillus had their first order of USN MK2s (approx 50K) already made and shipped to the Navy (late January 1943 with early February delivery) before the change order was promulgated and shipped with the split nut construction.

The Marines shipped their non-broken 1219C2s back to be "fixed" by welding the pommels. Very, very few of these initial Kabar 1219C2s survived issuance/recall.

A marine could be issued a USN MK2 and a squid could be issued a 1219C2. They all came into Navy Supply Depots and were probably stacked in adjacent bays. After all, they were all 7" knives and the supply clerks didn't care who made them, just that they had 7" blades. If a Marine supply clerk ordered a case of 1219C2s and the supply depot didn't have 12191C2s on hand, a case of USN MK2s was shipped. Vice versa with a Navy supply order.
 
TC said:
Interesting: In the drawing there is not that height-offset of the blade to the handle that all the actual production knives I've seen have. (Once seen, cannot be unseen.) Who messed up there?
Click to expand...
Noticed the same thing. The offset blade always annoys me when I see it. 😅
 
  • Like
Reactions: TC
pcprincipal said:
Again, thanks all for the replies and information. Sorry about the delay in replying, work has been crazy busy.

T tltt - Thank you for the original drawings! Is there any chance that you could PM or repost the current USMC drawings? The links don't work for me (getting a 404 error).

C Choctaw Dan - I might have to go down the path of reverse engineering one. It would be much better to have the military specs for it though. It must be a good blade design if it carried through for so long?

Sorry to ask for something else- I feel I have already asked for a lot already. Does anyone have drawings for an M4, M5, M6 or M7 bayonet? At least that way I can get the blade specifications. If not, I'll ask the Camillus company if they would be kind enough to send me something.
Click to expand...
i have M4 M6 M7 blade drawings, I can send the PDF file to your email.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top