USPS Insurance SNAFU w/ Rio Grande

Phil Dwyer

Phil Dwyer

Joined
Feb 28, 2006
Messages
3,494
When it rains it pours, they say...and it looks like I just got dumped on. I recently mailed in 1400 grams of sterling scrap to Rio Grande to try and make up for some lost wages (got cut back 20% at the school where I teach). Turns out Rio Grande says they never got the package. USPS says they delivered it. Rio Grande says the shipping label from my box was on someone else's box (along with their shipping label I guess). Just got news today from USPS. They denied my claim. Looks like I'm out $1,200.00. Anyone have any suggestions? What a blow. Sometimes I could just SPIT! :mad:
 
Don't stop there Phil move up the chain with the claim. It may not give you satisfaction but at least you get the chance to vent!

Make USPS give you a step by step reading of that package at each point it passed through! Time, date, and such! Tell them that you suspect that this was no accident and want to launch an internal investigation. They don't talk about it but they have such capabilities! If it is what I suspect you got a damn thief and he/she may lie right in your local PO.

I suspect that at least one branch someone saw the envelope knowing what was inside and moved the label. Labels are either self adhering or have been taped on,..........they don't just fall off and re-adhear them selves. There is someone always above who you have spoken too. Be sure to record all names of people you speak with and times. Government agencies do not like having someone looking into there business so they will try to make this a difficult process.

Go back to the company and talk to them about receiving a package with two shipping labels????????????????? That sounds like a BOS! No one there questioned this??????????? Tell them you want any and all details on who and how this claim was processed!

Me thinks you got a crook in the process somewhere and if you shake the tree hard enough the monkey may just fall out!

EDITED:
After looking at Stacy's post try his approach first! The old saying you can catch more flies with honey than vinegar. It just tends to whizz me off. We look at the PO as a government agency and we are taught to trust and believe in them!
The problem with those mailers is just like a Birthday card. The bright envelope is like a neon sign drawing a crook to snatch it. It hasn't been all that long ago that they caught a bunch at one of the major hubs putting mail on to planes and they were keeping all the birthday cards and stealing the money or gift cards from them. If you don't think that they know there is a potential for a problem, next time you are in a major PO lookup on the wall above the teller. There is a small window above each one. There is a catwalk that supervisors can spy on employees at any time. Although I suspect with video that is all being fazed out now!

If they do an investigation and what I suspect happened happened as too the label. Then someone had help. Because if both labels on that one package were scanned all the way through someone had to know to watch for the package and scan both labels meaning they were scanned within seconds of each other! Maybe I am being just distrusting here on this theory but I can't help it!!!!!!!

On a side note- Stacy is there anything that you haven't been evolved in? NOTE to self: I need to meet Stacy one of these days!:D
 
Last edited:
They will automatically deny many claims.
Tell them that you want to appeal their denial, and want to talk to a management person.

The situation is one of these:
1) The package was not delivered - If USPS can not show a valid delivery confirmation that Rio Grande agrees with, the package is not delivered.USPS should forward the claim to their underwriter.
2) The package was delivered - If USPS has a delivery confirmation that shows they delivered the package to Rio Grande, it is Rio Grande's responsibility to make good on the goods. Talk to them about making a claim. Most likely they will quickly find it.

These situations happen from time to time, and the automatic answer you will get is, "It's not our problem."
Don't accept that. Talk to the vice president of Roi Grand if necessary, and surely don't accept the word of some clerk at USPS.

Just this past December I didn't receive a box of product. When I traced it, UPS said it was delivered. I said it wasn't, and they sent me "Proof" - a signature of someone who is unknown to us. I said that the package must have been mis-delivered, and was signed for by a person at another place. UPS said the label shows our address. I pointed out that the label address didn't mean it was actually delivered there. The shipper said it was a UPS problem, and UPS said it was my problem. I pursued the situation beyond the denial of claim, and within two weeks the package was found and delivered. Up to that point no human being had physically looked for it. The people just press a few computer keys and say, "It Was Delivered".

In your case you are far better off, since Rio Grande admits they have your label. That is pretty much enough evidence to imply that the box was delivered. It would be a huge coincidence for your label to come off in shipping and accidentally attach itself to a box going to the same address....now wouldn't it. I am sure if you press Rio Grande, they will make good on the scrap. Don't stop until you have talked to everyone up the chain of command.

If you get totally stonewalled, give me a PM. I have far better connections with Stuller, but have some inside contacts at Rio ( they manufacture and sell one of the products I co-invented).
 
Phil Dwyer said:
When it rains it pours, they say...and it looks like I just got dumped on. I recently mailed in 1400 grams of sterling scrap to Rio Grande to try and make up for some lost wages (got cut back 20% at the school where I teach). Turns out Rio Grande says they never got the package. USPS says they delivered it. Rio Grande says the shipping label from my box was on someone else's box (along with their shipping label I guess). Just got news today from USPS. They denied my claim. Looks like I'm out $1,200.00. Anyone have any suggestions? What a blow. Sometimes I could just SPIT! :mad:
Click to expand...

It was no accident.

No one will volunteer the info that you can start a postal investigation.
They don't want to be involved in that.
read all the regulations on the Postal website so you know when you are being lied to.

Be sure that RioG keeps your packaging and does not toss it.



Maybe try registered delivery on the next time?
 
they lost a package of mine and claimed bullion isn't insured unless its registered
 
Good luck with this Phil. I'm angry for you about this. I'm also sorry you got cut back at school, another can of worms that I could rant about, priorities in education- but that this has added injury to injury is unacceptable and will not stand. Looks like you got good advice above and I have nothing to add there, just wanted to offer some commiseration and support. I've heard stories about USPS myself, use them all the time but some part of me is just waiting for my turn on the block.

Get 'em bro.
 
12345678910 said:
It was no accident.

No one will volunteer the info that you can start a postal investigation.
They don't want to be involved in that.
Click to expand...

I hate to say it, but I've had the same experience -- I sent myself 4 P2 cards from my DirecTV receivers by registered mail when I moved. The package went missing, but NO ONE at USPS wanted to help me. I was out $400.

When I complained about USPS losing registered mail, they told me I should have insured the package.

I've also had several "Delivery Confirmation" packages go missing, that USPS claimed were delivered. To me :( They were marked in USPS's system as "Signed By Recipient."
In one case it was a box of (expensive) camcorder batteries, and the postman left the box in the wrong communal delivery cubby. After several puzzling phonecalls between the seller, myself, and the USPS, I wandered around the mailbox area, looking for the box and later found it sitting in (the wrong) unlocked delivery box. USPS claimed I had signed for it. :mad:
 
Last edited:
That is BS!! Just to throw in my story a local mail person in my area was arrested a few weeks ago after an investigation determined she had been telling gift cards and birthday cards and suck with money in them for years. When who ever raided her house over 2,000 pieces of mail were found. Point is their are thieves everywhere, reading this post my heart goes out to you, I too have been kicked when i was down before just trying to do anything i could to get ahead. I hope everything works out for you , I would not stop until i got to the bottom of it though, because IMO what happened to you was no accident.
 
That's horrible to hear! I have had some bad luck with the mail recently myself and had to make a replacement knife over it. The one time I filed a claim on an insured package I was denied, in fact the PO here wouldn't even give me a receipt on my claim, it was odd to say the least. I wish you the best and I'd follow Stacy's advice for sure.

This is kind of off subject but www.monsterslayer.com might give you a better price on scrap. I went by there when I got into silver work and the owner gave us all kinds of brass , copper and nickle silver scrap for free just to learn on.

All the best!
 
Hell, I'm still waiting for a hammer from Sam that the PO lost last fall. How do you lose a 4lb. hammer? It's big, heavy, it's surely going to be sitting at the bottom of bin, and it's too big to fit in a crack somewhere. Oddly, they got the box and labels but still can't seem to find the hammer.

Phil, go down and raise some hell with them, they'll get on the ball eventually. However, it sounds like Rio Grande is the problem. Did you catch Southpark last week, it's kinda relevant here.
 
Keep pushing.

I had a rifle delivered ( I had a FFL at the time) that had a broken stock that occured in delivery. First claim was denied, and was told the reason was it is illegal to ship firearms in the mail. We all no that is incorrect, so I had to send postal regulations, FFL, shippers FFL, etc to get it started. Don't settle at the first denial.

AS for signatures. I had a pistol delivered to my home, left against my garage in a box. Box was sent signature required. Went to the post office to discuss the situation, and when they checked they said it was signed for, but couldn't tell me who. Box couldn't have been signed for and left outside my home right? After looking into it more, it turns oout the substitute carrier delivered it, signed for it, left it at my garage. He would have had to return to the distribution center to drop off the package had he not left it, which is about 8 miles from my home. Chalk it up to laziness.
 
Good luck Phil. I hope it works out for ya. Bad deal about the hours at work too. I agree with Salem cutting education at the instructional level is just DUMB, now at the admin level another deal, course admin makes the decisions as to where cuts are made. Go figure. I too have had problem with USPS regarding theft by their employees. Although arrests were made all I ever got was "sorry". No product back and no $$$ either. I hope your situation resolves itself better than mine did. I'm a pretty firm UPS guy now.
 
On a package like that, I'm inclined to build a wooden box that can't be easily cut open.

and fixing the address on by burning it in, or painting it on all 6 sides, so it's much more difficult to relabel.



Of course on that high a value package, I can hand deliver it to a local refinery within driving distance.

Hawaii has drawbacks on shipping it seems.



From what I've found, you may have to use registered mail to ship silver.
 
Last edited:
From what I'm reading here, Rio Grande got your silver. They got your label, so when did it detach from the box with the silver? After they got it? Two labels on one box = thief. And a clumsy one, leaving evidence behind.

Thief, may be a job for the Postal Inspectors. The box may have been stolen within the postal system and the label detached and put on another Rio Grande-bound box o confuse the issue. Goto www.usps.com and contact them with the story.
 
Similar story with me, though not as dire. I lost a $700 knife that went to an "undeliverable address" and never got returned. I got stone faces whenever I asked questions, and was sent in circles with folks to contact. I contacted several other makers who had shipped to the same place without trouble and then sent another knife there later via UPS without mishap. Conclusion: It was stolen. Not only that, nobody at USPS gave a crap. It took 6 months, but I did at least get my insurance claim after twice having to send paper copies of the same documents I submitted electronically. I ended up with a severe loathing of our postal system. Now I only ship UPS insured, which "UPS" the cost (pun intended) considerably.
 
Thanks guys! When I got the denial letter from USPS I started to write my contact at Rio Grande, but decided to post here instead. I was just too twisted up to write rationally. I'm almost cooled off enough to approach it with more stability now. I am considering the following email correspondence to my contact at Rio Grande...

Rio Grande

Dear Rebecca,

I just got a response from USPS denying my claim for the lost sterling scrap because their "records indicate this package was delivered as addressed" at 10:47AM on February 9, 2012 (USPS #03103490000150874197).

USPS does support your claim that Rio Grande did not receive the actual package of sterling scrap, nor support your claim that you just received the USPS shipping label on someone else's box. In order for your claim to be true Rio Grande would by default also be saying a USPS delivery person scanned two different shipping labels concurrently for one package. Also, Rio Grande did not take any action when it supposedly received one package with two different USPS shipping labels from two different Rio Grande customers. If Rio Grande had taken action it would have corroborated your claim. The fact that no action was taken invalidates your claim.

Since USPS can prove delivery of the 1400 grams of sterling scrap on February 9, 2012 at 10:47AM (see attached USPS Tracking & Confirm report) it makes Rio Grande responsible for the receipt of it. Rio Grande need to implement its own internal customer claim process for merchandise Rio Grande loses internally. Please reimburse me for the 1400 grams (see attached Scrap Packing List of 2/6/12).

Thank you,
Phil Dwyer (Earth Arts)
Customer #______

Attached: USPS Track & Confirm report; Rio Grande Scrap Packing List (2/6/12)
​

Any suggestions/recommendation before I submit this to Rio Grande?

Now on to USPS. Their denial letter states I can make a written appeal focusing on the basis of the denial. So here goes...

Claim Appeal
Accounting Services
PO Box 80141
St Louis, MO 63180-0141

Dear Friend,

My recent lost package (article number VI126155081 US) insurance claim was denied (see the accompanying USPS letter, claim ID: 1929014). The stated reason my claim was denied was that your records indicated the package was delivered. This is to appeal that decision. The "recipient" of the "package" stated they only received the USPS shipping label, NOT the package. The label was attached to another package, not mine. This can easily be confirmed with the "recipient." Please do so and process my claim.

Thank you, Phil Dwyer

Enclosed: USPS letter (claim ID: 1929014)

​

What do you good BF folks think?

Thanks guys!
 
Like I said that fits the old saying about flies and honey. You may have to get more like vinegar though!!!!!!!!!!!!!:mad:

If I were you I would see if you can find out who the other name was on the package from the folks at Rio Grande! They probably won't say but it would be worth a try. Tell them that you are trying to investigate with the USPS as too how another name was on that same package. Also ask for photo verification of such a package with two labels on it! They should still have it if they are doing there job!

Phil, this next part is just my theory on the subject.

If the other name got scanned at delivery and the time is close too the same time as your package then someone from USPS is more than likely involved.

If it was scanned at a different time and date it means someone at Rio Grande Scrap was involved!

One thing how was the label on your package? The reason I ask is labels do not just fall off and re-adhere themselves to another package, the chances of that are slim and none!!!!!!!!

I hope this all works out for you, keep us informed. Don't they have some-one who buys and sells gold and silver on the islands? I hate shipping stuff like that cause too many now what them type of shippers look like!:eek:

If there is two things I hate, it is a liar and a thief and buddy I am afraid you got both in this case!!!!!!!
 
Phil - I've been following your plight.... it sucks!! I believe your argument is well reasoned and your letter well written.

One point though.....

Phil Dwyer said:
Rio Grande

Dear Rebecca,

........

USPS does(or "does not"? This is a bit confusing) support your claim that Rio Grande did not receive the actual package of sterling scrap, nor support your claim that you just received the USPS shipping label on someone else's box.

......

​

What do you good BF folks think?

Thanks guys!
Click to expand...
 
USPS does support your claim that Rio Grande did not receive the actual package of sterling scrap, nor support your claim that you just received the USPS shipping label on someone else's box.


USPS does NOT ??? support your claim that Rio Grande did not receive the actual package of sterling scrap, nor support your claim that you just received the USPS shipping label on someone else's box.

missing the word not ?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top