USPS insurance - why pass the cost onto the buyer?

KingMC

KingMC

The Pun-isher
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I've seen many sales threads where the seller has said that extra insurance would cost extra or that it wouldn't be provided unless asked for. I thought that the insurance was for the shipper to get their money back if the package was lost, and that regardless of whether the seller paid for insurance or not, they would still have to refund the payment in full to the buyer as the buyer did not receive the product regardless of whose fault it was.

I haven't had a package get lost yet, so I have yet to file a claim, but if the buyer gets their money back in full regardless of whether insurance was purchased or not, isn't it in the seller's best interest to pay for the full insurance since they are the only ones losing money of the package doesn't arrive? Am I missing an obvious reason why the seller wouldn't be more than willing to pay for full insurance on a $600 dollar knife in case the knife gets lost in transit and the seller is out $550 dollars because they have to refund the cost in full to the buyer?
 
USPS insurance claims are very difficult. Unless you have original sales receipts and proof that what you say you packed is in there, and that it was packed correctly, there's little chance of ever seeing the amount you insured for. Even if you have all the proof you need USPS will make excuses why they can't pay you and try to pay out less than you insured for. Even if you take the time to fight them for the money it could take months before you see a cent.

Since it's not the buyer's responsibility to replace missing items or funds what do they have to lose by not paying for extra insurance? If the package is lost or the item goes missing during transit it will be the seller's responsibility to reimburse the buyer whether insurance was purchased or not. It makes no difference to the buyer, and considering how convoluted a process USPS claims are, the reimbursement will probably just come out of pocket either way.

I think many sellers at this point are aware of what a joke USPS insurance is and that it will not help them very much to get their money back, especially if original sales receipts are nonexistent or the item has a secondary market value that USPS will not recognize for insurance purposes. So if they are going to spend several additional dollars on every package they send they might feel that they don't want that to come entirely out of pocket, and will ask the buyer to cover the expense.
 
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asdf12345 said:
USPS insurance claims are very difficult. Unless you have original sales receipts and proof that what you say you packed is in there, and that it was packed correctly, there's little chance of ever seeing the amount you insured for. Even if you have all the proof you need USPS will make excuses why they can't pay you and try to pay out less than you insured for. Even if you take the time to fight them for the money it could take months before you see a cent.

Since it's not the buyer's responsibility to replace missing items or funds what do they have to lose by not paying for extra insurance? If the package is lost or the item goes missing during transit it will be the seller's responsibility to reimburse the buyer whether insurance was purchased or not. It makes no difference to the buyer, and considering how convoluted a process USPS claims are, the reimbursement will probably just come out of pocket either way.

I think many sellers at this point are aware of what a joke USPS insurance is and that it will not help them very much to get their money back, especially if original sales receipts are nonexistent or the item has a secondary market value that USPS will not recognize for insurance purposes. So if they are going to spend several additional dollars on every package they send they might feel that they don't want that to come entirely out of pocket, and will ask the buyer to cover the expense.
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Bingo
 
USPS insurance is a joke, don't bother with it. One of the biggest online gun sellers does the same thing and you have to pay extra if you want your package insured. They are probably the most profitable online seller also, I think they know what they are doing (making extra money).
 
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I once sent a pkg to Australia 'certified' and there is a base level of ins.on certified deliveries(the cost of the delivery in this case $27) but I also bought a little extra insurance(i think it was up to $150)the actual value of the item was $200-to make a long story short my pkg never arrived or so said the Australian outfit,and the usps said they could track it up until it left the USA after that they really can't guarantee anything,of course by this time I was so tired of the whole thing that I let the usps keep their insurance and I have never sent a pkg. outside of the USA again-lesson learned,and yes I think the extra protection the usps offers is a scam
 
Like with paypal fees I think this mostly highlights the idea that many customers prefer that extraneous costs (pay pal fees, shipping, insurance) be simply incorporated into the purchase price. Many sellers don't do it that way because they want to advertise a price for their item, not a price for their item plus logistics. Either way those costs ARE going to be passed on whether they are overt or not. If customers prefer to have an "out the door" price I'm good with that, I can learn.
 
BITEME said:
I once sent a pkg to Australia 'certified' and there is a base level of ins.on certified deliveries(the cost of the delivery in this case $27) but I also bought a little extra insurance(i think it was up to $150)the actual value of the item was $200-to make a long story short my pkg never arrived or so said the Australian outfit,and the usps said they could track it up until it left the USA after that they really can't guarantee anything,of course by this time I was so tired of the whole thing that I let the usps keep their insurance and I have never sent a pkg. outside of the USA again-lesson learned,and yes I think the extra protection the usps offers is a scam
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Insurance claims are dicey to say the least, I've never successfully collected one from USPS, UPS or FedEx.
 
It's perfectly reasonable for a seller to figure in the costs for shipping insurance in the shipping and handling charges or in the total price of the item being sold – it's overhead. What's not reasonable is the idea that once an item leaves the seller's hands, he/she no longer is responsible for that item arriving in the buyers hands as promised. The seller is on the hook until confirmed delivery.

Shipping insurance as well as signature confirmation protects the seller not the buyer. If the transaction is done through PayPal (not gift), Amazon, or most credit card companies, the buyer can file a claim against the seller and in all likelihood will be refunded in full (all things being equal) for non-delivery or shipping damage.

In short, if you see a seller here on BF indicating that insurance is extra, you can either move on to another seller or just ignore it. Sellers who fail to adequately insure the products they ship are setting themselves up – not the buyer – for a loss. It's only ignorance on the buyer's part that allows sellers to get away with this.

Now prevailing on a USPS "insurance" claim is an entirely different matter. As far as I'm concerned, the so-called insurance protection offered to consumers within this industry is a complete scam. The USPS is better in this regard than UPS or FedEx, but not by much.
 
Incompetence of USPS is a very poor excuse to pass on the insurance to the buyer. There do exist alternative shipping companies besides USPS. As Rev stated, it's mostly ignorance, and but again its hard to believe that to be a valid reason for sellers who buy/sell for years.

Insurance, PayPal fees are seller's responsibility, not the buyer's. Any reason to justify otherwise reeks dishonest.
 
asdf12345 said:
USPS insurance claims are very difficult. Unless you have original sales receipts and proof that what you say you packed is in there, and that it was packed correctly, there's little chance of ever seeing the amount you insured for. Even if you have all the proof you need USPS will make excuses why they can't pay you and try to pay out less than you insured for. Even if you take the time to fight them for the money it could take months before you see a cent.

Since it's not the buyer's responsibility to replace missing items or funds what do they have to lose by not paying for extra insurance? If the package is lost or the item goes missing during transit it will be the seller's responsibility to reimburse the buyer whether insurance was purchased or not. It makes no difference to the buyer, and considering how convoluted a process USPS claims are, the reimbursement will probably just come out of pocket either way.

I think many sellers at this point are aware of what a joke USPS insurance is and that it will not help them very much to get their money back, especially if original sales receipts are nonexistent or the item has a secondary market value that USPS will not recognize for insurance purposes. So if they are going to spend several additional dollars on every package they send they might feel that they don't want that to come entirely out of pocket, and will ask the buyer to cover the expense.
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I shipped a trade to a member here that never showed up and USPS was easy to deal with. I told my local post office and they showed me where to file a claim. The money was refunded in full within 6 weeks, no hassle whatsoever. They even refunded the amount I'd spent on postage. Yes, you have to have a receipt, but the post office doesn't know what was shipped even. You just need a receipt for something that cost at least, as much as you insured the lost item for. It can be over even, but you only get what you insured for.
 
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I ship a lot . I have never been unlucky to have a package go missing. The chances are very slim that it wont. In my experience anyway. I feel if you package professionally using the proper box for the item and have a signature required you are good.

I have fell for the insurance more than once when I send a package . I have never added that cost that I can remember.

I was on the bad end of a package being shipped to me from Jantz Supply . They shipped me a package last week using USPS as I requested .. However the mistake they made was using a board size game box to ship me several slabs of steel. Well box arrived with everything in it except the steel poked a hole through the side and off it went. Package was not insured but Jantz I don't think but maybe it was . They just sent me out the new package this time using UPS . They claimed to me that UPS pays out any
claims much quicker than USPS.

Sorry I drifted off there. I agree with you guys . Seller pays Ins. If that's the way they want to roll. Best to just come up with a price for the whole package. Nothing kills a sale quicker with me anyway than these few things. Gift or add 3.5 % or sometimes 4% or Buyer pays for Insurance. People are that lazy that they cant do the simple math to just add these things in the price.
 
choombak said:
Incompetence of USPS is a very poor excuse to pass on the insurance to the buyer. There do exist alternative shipping companies besides USPS. As Rev stated, it's mostly ignorance, and but again its hard to believe that to be a valid reason for sellers who buy/sell for years.

Insurance, PayPal fees are seller's responsibility, not the buyer's. Any reason to justify otherwise reeks dishonest.
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If I see any additional fees I just navigate away. If I go to a store I don't pay extra to use a bankcard even though their fees are higher than paypal.
 
Zidfeldts said:
If I see any additional fees I just navigate away. If I go to a store I don't pay extra to use a bankcard even though their fees are higher than paypal.
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Stores already calculate the potential use of a customers whipping out their credit card into their prices. Also, some gas stations will give you a discount if you pay with cash. UNless you are buying 55 gallons or more, it usually doesn't amount to much of a savings though.
 
So because USPS is sucky at getting your insurance money back you decide that the only time you want to pay for insurance is when the buyer asks for it? As a buyer I wouldn't care if the package was insured or not, I'm not the one at risk of losing hundreds of dollars if a package goes missing. It makes very little sense why a buyer would opt for insurance since they aren't the one at risk. It seems that those who let the buyer choose are just clueless as to how insurance works.

The only reason why anybody would pass the insurance off to the buyer to pay if they were going to pay for insurance anyway is to keep the advertised price low, which is a bit low but the seller's choice.
 
Knives are expensive, and not putting the whole package together for a buyer is a bad way to conduct business.
Every deal 'should' include insurance with signature confirmation and proper packaging.
It's not that hard to factor this into your price.
(That goes for PP fee's as well, but that's not what this thread is about)

You need to do the best you can to protect yourself from any issues that may happen. Your obligation as a seller does not end at 'sold' you also have to get the item to the buyer.....
 
RevDevil said:
Stores already calculate the potential use of a customers whipping out their credit card into their prices. Also, some gas stations will give you a discount if you pay with cash. UNless you are buying 55 gallons or more, it usually doesn't amount to much of a savings though.
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Stores calculate everything into what you pay for an item, including credit card fee's, and theft.
Everything that could possibly effect a stores bottom line is already factored into the price you pay.....
 
At the very least the "insurance" protection for the buyer is their Paypal funds (if using Paypal) staying full in the account until they receive the merch, it's just the risk of selling IMHO.
 
People that have anything "extra" in their ad (paperwork, fees, taxes, shipping & handling, et al) are really just demonstrating to the rest of us that they are best avoided and are more trouble than they're worth.

Put the price.

Put anything else next to the price and it's just a recipe for headache for people that don't want drama or extraneous bullshit in (what should be) a simple person-to-person commerce exchange.
 
My new favorite attempted upcharge is at Sportsman's Guide, they automatically add a "delivery assurance" fee into your sales cart which you have to decline. They're a pretty large mail/online sales outlet, how many of their customers do you think are paying that fee and either not realizing it or thinking its mandatory?

Heres me thinking that paying for the items I ordered and the shipping charges to get them to me should already have gotten me assured delivery. Who knew...?
 
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