Utility Sharp and Shaving Sharp, Which is Best?

I might be the way I am with my edges because of the variety of use my EDC's will see. My Spyderco Military gets used for frequent food prep (I just like it better than my kitchen knives, guess I haven't found the right set for me), I take it to the woods frequently where I'm carving up wood for extended periods at times, break up cardboard and plastic bottles for the trash etc.

Also, the edges aren't solely about cutting performance. They also make sharpening literally take seconds. In all reality having to spend a minute or two on the stones with a regular bevel isn't exactly a patience tester, but it's still nice being able to reset my edges with 2 strokes of a fine stone per side. Also, with a DMT X Course stone I can reprofile most knives in under 5 minutes, unless I'm doing something like taking a flat saber ground Endura in ZDP189 flat to the stone. But reprofiling a full flat ground ZDP189 Caly Jr or S30V Para can be done in 5 - 10 minutes working at what I consider a relaxed pace. This amount of time spent reprofiling is moot when you consider the time saved during touch-ups.

Another aspect is safety. It is common knowledge a sharper edge is safer than a duller edge. Why this thinking hasn't extended to geometry as well is beyond me, but it's quite obvious by my testing that the thin edge bevel will be safer, as you're exerting 2 or 3 times less force in some cases.

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One last thing to leave you with. Some measurements I took comparing a stock Endura (VG10) to an Endura (ZDP189) reprofiled flat to the stone for a scandi grind. I measured the pounds of force it took to cut different materials.

Plastic: Each knife was used to slice apart large plastic drink bottles making a vertical push cut straight into the plastic bottle half, the ZDP189 knife took 4 pounds of force, while the VG10 knife required 10 pounds of force.

Apple: The knives were used to peel and quarter an apple. Using the scale to measure pounds of pressure required to push cut a fuji apple in half, the ZDP189 knife required a 13 pound push while the VG10 knife took 25 pounds to make the cut.

Cardboard: The knives were used to push cut and slice various types of cardboard. The knife was push cut straight down into the two layers at once and the force required for the cut recorded. The ZDP189 knife took 8 pounds of force to start the cut and 5 pounds of force to continue the cut, while the VG10 took 21 pounds to start the cut and 16 to follow it through.

Cables: Each knife will be used to push cut through CAT5 networking cable. The ZDP189 knife took 38-43 pounds of force to do this and the VG10 knife made it through twice with a 75 pound push and failed to make it through on 3 attempts using up to 100 pounds pressure. I did not feel safe using heavier pressure than this so did not attempt to finish the cuts.

Carrot: Each knife was used to peel a carrot and cut it into pieces using a straight downward push cut. The force of the latter was recorded with the scale. The ZDP189 blade took 4 pounds to cut the carrot and the VG10 required 9 pounds of force.
 
I've observed a few folks trying to find a shortcut; some quantum leap that will produce miraculous results promptly.

leaving a 1000 (ish) grit toohy edge isn't the worst one, and for applications suited to such an edge, it's even smart.

the part that isn't smart is to think a 1000 grit toothy edge will be suited to daily use without daily maintenance.. or that you'll be able to slice up hair with that edge.

It's easier to do lots of jobs with mirror polished edges, and a few jobs with toothy ones.. don't try to substitute, it ain't efficient.
 
the part that isn't smart is to think a 1000 grit toothy edge will be suited to daily use without daily maintenance.. or that you'll be able to slice up hair with that edge.

Why isn't it smart to think such things?
 
I am not satisfied until the knife can cleanly slice tissue paper, toilet paper.
Both my EDCs are S30V sharpened untilthey can do just that. I keepa DMT double-sided Fine / Ultra-Fine on me somewhere daily. So if I have to resharpen it to that standard, no problem.
Try it sometime. Will your knife cleanly cut T.P. or tissue paper. If not, it is not sharp enough.
 
What edge do you prefer and why? I prefer close to shaving sharp.
I prefer to have an edge as sharp as I can get it. Having said that, I don't go running back to my sharpener to maintain that edge. As I said, many edges will cut much better than many people think they will. If I'm peeling skin off a piece of vegetable or fruit, thin and sharp is the way to go. Since I almost never need a knife to do that, I don't try to maintain the blade to a razor sharpness.

Which angles do you want your blades to be comfortable with and how often do you sharpen your EDC?
I tend to swipe my blade over a pocket sharpener that has two small ceramic rods. They can keep a sharp knife fairly sharp, but it's not that I hate sharpening; it's that I hate cleaning the rods. The small ones are the toughest to clean.

Also, what blade steel and grind works best for your edge requirements?
Well, I use AUS8 most of the time and, frankly, it's one of the easiest steels to keep mindnumbing sharp. I've given up trying to keep my Spyderco Native that sharp, but I keep it sharp enough to cut almost anything.
 
I like shaving sharp for kicks, but I find myself almost afraid of it. My finger barely swiped a SS edge of a knife and was already cut, not a bad cut-the ones that don't hurt, but you scratch at it-but still...

Utility edge is fine.
 
I developed skills to sharpen any knife to hair whittling sharpness:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQPwHu4lxsQ&feature=channel_page

It take just a few minutes to restore. So I keep my knives which are in use with this edge. Of couse it is only Dozier D2 and ZDP189 holds it and AUS8 etc - not reason to waste time, they lose this sharpness pretty fast.

But with Dozier and ZDP189 it is just pleasure to cut, because it does not require almost any force to cut I have full control and does it does not require too much effort to cut. Just recently I opened some plastic bag - I just take knife swipe it over bag edge like magic wand and it open. All with one move take it from back pocket opening cutting closing and put back in a one or two second. I do not need to hold this bag special way - I just hold it as I take it, no preparation or anything - pure single fast operation.

I able to do much more with knife this sharp and with much less effort - this is just convinient and probably once a month or few weeks depends on use I resharpen them in few minutes.

Cutting tooling leather - one light move and 1/4" thick leather cut clean and I can do cut of any shape... Cutting computer paper - 500 sheets in half...

But it should be good steel to be able to see advantage of hair whittling sharpness.

Thanks, Vassili.

Here the test on how differentr steel holds this edge:

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=589139
 
But with Dozier and ZDP189 it is just pleasure to cut, because it does not require almost any force to cut I have full control and does it does not require too much effort to cut. Just recently I opened some plastic bag - I just take knife swipe it over bag edge like magic wand and it open....

I able to do much more with knife this sharp and with much less effort - this is just convinient....

I'm surprised more knife knuts don't get enjoyment out of this sort of thing.
 
I'm surprised more knife knuts don't get enjoyment out of this sort of thing.

It require both premium steel and ability to sharpen edge to hair whittling sharpness easy. I remember myself not using hair whittling because I afraid that I will not be able to do this again. Now when I know I can do this anytime without too much effort and steel will hold it for reasonable time I have no problem using this.

Thanks, Vassili
 
A knife can be sharp on many levels, from finishing with just a fine DMT or using ultra fine stropping compounds for that mirror finish. I think it also depends a lot on ones sharpening skill and their tools, I can remember the day I got my medium spyderco ceramic and realized that "yes" my knives can get sharper. There has been a lot of progression sence then and my skills and equipment have gotten a lot better. I have become accustom to a very sharp high polished edge and can tell the differences when cutting with a lesser edge. This is not to say that I won't do a field touch-up with a UF DMT and be happy with it but when I get home its the full treatment.

Its even sharper than it looks.
Picture326.jpg
 
knifenut1013, I always enjoy looking at your knife edges. They look extremely well done.
 
Thankyou, its taken a long time to get here.
 
It's a multi step process that finishes with 0.25 micron diamond paste.

The green DMT is about the half way point.
 
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