Vacuum/heat necessary for stabolizing kiln dried wood?

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Jun 25, 2007
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I was looking at the small piece of wood that my current vacuum (jar) can stabilize and I started thinking. When using wood that is kiln dried is using a vacuum and heat necessary? Since a large amount of the moisture has already been removed. Could soaking scales for two weeks work as effectively as soaking a block under a vacuum for a week? I know the thinner scales will need to be kept straight while curing but this is not an issue.

Simply put: Is soaking kiln dried scales effective enough or should I upgrade to a larger vacuum chamber?

Thanks
-Dan
 
This is all just guesswork and preference, the question to ask yourself is will I be happy with the result? What you're trying to accomplish will make the decision for you. Many guys were soaking their wood in hardener before the foodsaver/vacuum thing became popular. The sort of wood it is will affect penetration, regardless of how dry they are, some woods are going to soak up hardener faster than others.

Keep in mind that with or without vacuum your home stabilizing will not be the same as paying the pros to do it.

Imo, the definitive answer is "maybe".
 
All right, that makes sense. I guess I'll just stop at the store and get more wood hardener so I can experiment with it.

Thanks
-Dan
 
I have a pressure/vacuum pot and have been wanting to try some home stabilizing. I know I would not reach the quality of WSSI but, I like learning and doing things. I would only use it on woods that are fairly solid to start with. I would think that if I put the wood in a fairly hard vacuum for a couple days it would remove all the moisture etc. Then if the piece was completely submerged in the hardening liquid and pressured up to say 100psi and left for several days, I would have better luck forcing the stabilizer into the wood than sucking it in. Why does everyone want to suck it in with a vacuum? I see pressure treated woods all the time, never vacuum. I am really curious about this. If pressure is best I could built a pot and system that would take say 1000psi (one thousand) no problem. I built and work on vessels and piping that go higher almost every day. I would use compressed nitrogen from a cylinder instead of air to prevent compression combustion.
 
Why does everyone want to suck it in with a vacuum? I see pressure treated woods all the time, never vacuum. I am really curious about this.

Vacuum sabilizing is more expensive than pressure treating - and superior by miles. The vacuum sucks almost all the air and water out of the wood. When the vacuum is removed, the wood still holds enough vacuum inside to suck in the stabiliant to replace the air and water.

In your example of using pressure, water would remain, but more importantly, tiny little high pressure bubbles would remain. Of course, when you drop the pressure, those bubbles just blow out all the stabiliant around them.

Rob!
 
I understand the drying effects of a vacuum as liquids such as water boil away quite easily under reduced pressure. I would vacuum any piece first for this reason alone. I am trying to understand the whole picture.

I also understand the expansion and compression of air under pressure, true liquids to not compress. Besides being an ex diver, I routinely do pressure testing. A scuba diver has to decompress and exhale upon ascension due to breathing compressed air, a free diver does not. Although time at depth affects the time of decompression the main factor is original volumes. The free diver takes in no compressed air and the air already retained is compressed on diving and it can not expand over its original volume upon ascension. Therefore no need to exhale on ascension. The scuba guy needs compressed air to assist his chest to expand and take air in and as he ascents he must exhale the compressed air he ADDED. He needs to decompress to allow the compressed air to work its way out of his system before its expansion blocks things up. But, both are subject to the same outside pressure when submerged.

Now if I first vacuum a piece to dry it and then completely submerge it in a liquid at atmospheric and then pressure it up to say 500psi, the air in the piece would shrink as the liquid pressed in. some of the air would respond to gravity and work is way to the surface and float to the top of the water during the time of compression. Then when bled off the air remaining in the piece would expand to its original volume, MINUS, what ever volume was forced out and escaped to the surface. That would be the amount in volume or liquid retained by the piece.

Now, if I completely submerge a similar piece in liquid and take it to a hard vacuum the liquid it self is under vacuum and has no pressure to press itself into the piece. As a mater of fact many lighter fractions in many liquids would boil off. (thinners and smaller molecules) All forces on the piece should be uniform and only the actual weight and ability of the liquid to soak into the piece should cause displacement. If a part of the piece was exposed the air inside would have a route to the vacuum and as the air left the piece of course its volume would be replace by liquid, but the liquid forces to move into the piece would be hindered by the vacuum exerted on the liquid surface. Upon returning to atmospheric the remaining air in the piece actually effected by the vacuum would shrink a bit and possibly draw in some more liquid.

I would think that a system that alternated between pressure and vacuum with the correct liquid would work well. Best of all if I took a block and drilled and tapped its center and attached it to a tube with vacuum then placed it in a bag of stabilizer and sealed the bag around the tube then pressured up the outside of the bag I would have the best of both worlds. I have a plan on how to do just that. You could also construct a rubber seal on a pressure vessel surface and clamp a uniformly shaped pieces of wood flat to the seal and then cover the wood with stabilizer and close and pressurize the vessel the pressures only escape route being via pressing the liquid thru the wood to atmosphere. I think this would work with a small volume vessel and uniform pieces of wood. Of course if the wood ruptured or the seal failed it would be a mess and care would be needed for safety sake, something like a secondary containment.

What am I missing or where is my physics mistake. Hey, Duh, I am going to save this and run this by my girl friend who teaches college physics.

Ps I have quite a bit of stabilize wood and buy it from solid sources. I just like to experiment at times
 
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