How To vacuum heat treating damasteel?

Thanks. So far it looks like the guy who will be doing the HT won't be able to use anything except the freezer unfortunately.

Since I don't know about the availabilitiy of plate quenching, is air cooling after austenizing as good as plate or oil quenching or does quenching give higher hardness? I guess air cooling will need a block on top of the blades to avoid bending.

Also I would like to ask, does double temper mean that the blade is cooled to room temperature between the two tempers?
 
Since you haven't filled out your profile, I don't know where you live.

If it is in the US, send them to JT. He is a member here and does full cryo and knows his stuff. They will come back dead straight and hardness tested.
I have used Peter's for years, but plan on sending a batch of damasteel blades to JT and see how he does. I expect good results from all his customers positive comments.
 
knifeaficionado said:
Thanks. So far it looks like the guy who will be doing the HT won't be able to use anything except the freezer unfortunately.

Since I don't know about the availabilitiy of plate quenching, is air cooling after austenizing as good as plate or oil quenching or does quenching give higher hardness? I guess air cooling will need a block on top of the blades to avoid bending.

Also I would like to ask, does double temper mean that the blade is cooled to room temperature between the two tempers?
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I think you need to shop for a better heat treater.
 
I know, I also feel like cryo is a very easy task, the problem is that the work is done in Estonia, and there are no other guys available for this work nearby. Is there any benefit from oil or plate quench vs air cooling after austenizing and should the blade cool to room temperature between the two tempers?

Thanks for all the help
 
Oil and plate will get a tad harder. Plate only will be almost as good. Air only is probably a point lower.

I can't believe you can't get dry ice in Estonia. Have you checked with restaurant suppliers, welding shops, big grocery stores?

A good deep freezer will get down to 0F/-18C and some will hit -10F/123C. That will be enough to lower the RA a bit.
 
Thanks for the info. The problem is with the HT place being in different town and the HT guys are not interested in getting dry ice. I am looking into taking care of the HT process in Finland.

Regarding the austenizing time and temperature, does 1925 fahrenheit for 12 minutes sound good if not using cryo? I read somewhere that if using lower end of austenizing temperature range, it helps if cryo isn't available, is this true?
 
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knifeaficionado said:
I know, I also feel like cryo is a very easy task, the problem is that the work is done in Estonia, and there are no other guys available for this work nearby. Is there any benefit from oil or plate quench vs air cooling after austenizing and should the blade cool to room temperature between the two tempers?

Thanks for all the help
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Have you looked into the price of shipping your blade to JT? Damasteel isn't cheap, and it would be a shame to not get its full potential. I'd heat treat it for you too, but it would cost the same to ship to me as it would to JT.
 
I'll vouch for JT. I recently sent him several Damasteel blades in a variety of shapes and sizes. His communication and service were great and the blade came back in fine shape and arrow straight.
 
While the shout out to JT is nice, shipping a blade round trip from Estonia isn't a viable solution. I know there are plenty of knifemakers in Estonia, so it would be best if he found another maker who could do it for him. I also still suggest he do some checking around and find where he can get dry ice.
 
Kevin Cross said:
I'll vouch for JT. I recently sent him several Damasteel blades in a variety of shapes and sizes. His communication and service were great and the blade came back in fine shape and arrow straight.
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“several” you mean like 20 lol. I felt like I had to transport then from the office to the shop with an armed guard. Was a pleasure working with your knives. I would really love to see pictures of them when finished, especially that monster cleaver.

Thank you guys for all the kind words. We do try and provide the best service possible.

About the Damasteel heat treat. I don’t know if I would spend that kind of money on steel if I was not able to do a proper heat treatment. If it was a knife for your self then maybe but never somthing I would sell.
 
I don't know why folks seem to think that damasteel has some weird HT. It is RWL34and PMC27. The HT is the same as ATS34, RWL34, etc.


RWL34:
Product information Stainless knife steel, RWL 34
HEAT TREATMENT RECOMMENDATIONS
Hardening Tempering Tempering Hardness Remarks Temp. Temp. Time hours HRC Deg. C/F Deg. C/F
I. 1050/1920 220/430 1 x 2 h 59 Low temperature tempering for corrosion II. 1050/1920 175/345 1 x 2 h 62 resistance
III. 1080/1980 175/345 1 x 2 h 63 ” +deep cooling +deep cooling
VI. 1100/2010 175/345 1 x 2 h 63,5 ” +deep cooling +deep cooling
V. 1050/1920 520/970 3 x 1 h 61 High temperature tempering for maximum edge sharpness. VI. 1100/2010 520/970 3 x 1 h 64 ” +deep cooling +deep cooling
Deep cooling gives increased hardness, especially in combination with a high hardening temperature. Deep cooling is - 80 C minus ( - 144 F). Time, 10 minutes. High temperature tempering reduces the corrosion resistance and should not be used for food handling applications.

DAMASTEEL:​

DchB5MJ.png
 
HSC /// said:
I can't help you with the vacuum...
I'm new to working with Damasteel and about to do another small run soon.
I guess my question to you is - have you tried hardening without vacuum?
I'm reading that you only got to 57 with vacuum.

post #12 https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/damasteel-ht-w-o-cryo.1603325/#post-18644833
I didnt have any trouble getting to 61
regards
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Looks like I will have to get the HT place to use the freezer only, unfortunately not being able to get them to do dry ice or liquid nitrogen treatment.
HSC, looks like I will have to follow your method since you got it to nice 61HRC. Do you mind writing the step by step process you used and how thick was the piece?
I am talking about this post: https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/damasteel-ht-w-o-cryo.1603325/#post-18508690

I hope they have at least a powerful freezer at the HT place :)
 
knifeaficionado said:
Looks like I will have to get the HT place to use the freezer only, unfortunately not being able to get them to do dry ice or liquid nitrogen treatment.
HSC, looks like I will have to follow your method since you got it to nice 61HRC. Do you mind writing the step by step process you used and how thick was the piece?
I am talking about this post: https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/damasteel-ht-w-o-cryo.1603325/#post-18508690

I hope they have at least a powerful freezer at the HT place :)
Click to expand...

1/8" thk folder blade, wrap in SS foil
oven at 1925 F at 12 min and quenched in plates with fan air.

First measure was 60 RC
after 90 min freezer time it seemed to pick up a point at 61 Rc,
 
HSC /// said:
1/8" thk folder blade, wrap in SS foil
oven at 1925 F at 12 min and quenched in plates with fan air.

First measure was 60 RC
after 90 min freezer time it seemed to pick up a point at 61 Rc,
Click to expand...

Thanks,

I didn't realize before you didn't do the tempering, is there a chance tempering will lower the hardness?
 
I wouldn't recommended vacuum furnace for damasteel since the longer soak time will dramatically effect the etching.


B3070256-ACB3-43AE-A73B-1EE940D17DFA_zpslp6jgkaw.jpg
 
knifeaficionado said:
Do you mean damasteel treated in vacuum oven will require longer soak in acid when etching?
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Vacuum furnace naturally require long soak time (like 2 or 3 hours) due to the huge chamber size and amount of work pieces normally put in.

Longer soak time will likely to dissolve more Cr carbide and put higher amount of chromium to the solution that will effect how steel react to the acid. In the picture the worse contrast piece is HTed by vacuum furnace.
 
here's on I just did using the parameters I outlined earlier, etched in muriatic acid and then 50/50 FC/vinegar per the Todd Begg YT video

STnoVpF.jpg
 
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