Values on customs forms?

hardheart

hardheart

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A lot of posts mention requests to reduce declared dollar value of knives shipped overseas for the buyer to save on fees. How do you determine the value? Your original purchase price? The price of the transaction? MSRP? Whatever the buyer requests?

Here's a couple situations, does your viewpoint change for any of them? The basis for all is you originally paid $100 for the knife as new from an official online dealer, MSRP was $130, and the buyer asks you to declare the value at $50. Insurance is not available. You have an electronic invoice for your purchase, the buyer's purchase from you, and ad copy listing the MSRP.

1. Knife is rare and LNIB, you sell it for $200 in a private party sale.
2. Knife is rare and carried/sharpened, you sell it for $150 in a private party sale.
3. Knife is common and LNIB, you sell for $95 in a private party sale.
4. Knife is common, carried/sharpened, sold it for $75 in a private party sale.
 
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Generally speaking, in the absence of government schedules of value or requirement of some other method, value is determined by the price voluntarily paid by a buyer in an arms-length transaction. The market sets the value.
 
If you ship without signature & insurance you can open yourself up to a paypal claim if the product never arrives at the destination or if the buyer claims it never arrives. research your buyer, postal policies, and payment polices.

I would label whatever the buyer requested, but keep in mind the insurance will only cover the "declared value".

As a buyer, am I going to request insurance and full declaration for a $100 knife......no, the added costs do not make it feasible $35 shipping method, + duties + taxes = no point. But on a $500 knife.... for sure.
 
hardheart said:
A lot of posts mention requests to reduce declared dollar value of knives shipped overseas for the buyer to save on fees. How do you determine the value? Your original purchase price? The price of the transaction? MSRP? Whatever the buyer requests?

Here's a couple situations, does your viewpoint change for any of them? The basis for all is you originally paid $100 for the knife as new from an official online dealer, MSRP was $130, and the buyer asks you to declare the value at $50. Insurance is not available. You have an electronic invoice for your purchase, the buyer's purchase from you, and ad copy listing the MSRP.

1. Knife is rare and LNIB, you sell it for $200 in a private party sale. $200
2. Knife is rare and carried/sharpened, you sell it for $150 in a private party sale. $150
3. Knife is common and LNIB, you sell for $95 in a private party sale. $95
4. Knife is common, carried/sharpened, sold it for $75 in a private party sale. $75
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It is against federal and internatonal laws to misrepresent values, not that I have ever heard of anybody getting in trouble for it. This is one reason why I won't misrepresent or mark "gift" on international shipments. Another would be for insurance reasons, I have never experienced it, but I would believe the post office would determine the value of your package at the lower value declared on the customs forms.

See above red for values I would use on customs forms.

Private party sales vs. commercial sales are still subject to most of the same laws when it comes to declaration of value and insurance claims.

See Wizzard1717's post re: signature and insurance, demand USPS Express Mail service as a buyer or a seller, it comes with $100.00 insurance and sig. comf. (unless you request otherwise).

Hope this helps,
Rob
 
You do not want to lie on customs forms. Whatever they paid for it is what you should put on it, I do know people who have been levied fines by ICE for falsifying customs forms. International buyers are aware of their duty fees, It's their responsibility not yours but your the one who has to pay if you get flagged for review.
I never ship overseas, Paypal is too easy to manipulate. Good Luck
 
declare value and insure for same value , In South Africa as an example ,our customs checks declared value as well as insured value against the invoice attached if there is any differance the buyer/customer who recieves the goods is in a heap of trouble and plenty paperwork .
 
At times, buyer requests seller to declare lower value for the reason of not attracting attention of postal thieves be it in USA or other respective countries.
 
National_Knives said:
demand USPS Express Mail service as a buyer or a seller, it comes with $100.00 insurance and sig. comf. (unless you request otherwise).

Hope this helps,
Rob
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Never knew express International required a signature, thanks. If a paypal dispute was opened, would that signature save me from having funds taken from my account?
 
dericdesmond said:
Never knew express International required a signature, thanks. If a paypal dispute was opened, would that signature save me from having funds taken from my account?
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You have to be careful. Often when printing labels via Paypal, Paypal will automatically add the "Waiver of Signature". It is something I had noticed recently and I now print Express labels from USPS.com vs. Paypal to require the Sig. Comf. regardless of the value and desination. I don't know if Paypal will auto. add this "Waiver of Signature" with item valued at >=$250.00, items of this value and higher need a sig. comf. to be covered under Paypal's Seller protection.

Also, you are at the mercy of foreign postal service to gather the signature. It doesn't always happen, heck, I have items come with signature comfirmation via USPS, UPS, Fedex and end up being left w/o required signature.

Take care,
Rob
 
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USPS Priority also requires signature and id to collect here. This also updates to the tracking info on the USPS site once the package has arrived and been signed for (within an hour of collection generally).

Andy
 
dericdesmond said:
Never knew express International required a signature, thanks. If a paypal dispute was opened, would that signature save me from having funds taken from my account?
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Affirmative. USPS EMI will send to the respective country courier service to forward to the buyer. Track able and signature is required. However, the signature confirmation information is not updated in USPS tracking date. It will only be shown in the respective country courier service tracking website.
 
Andy the Aussie said:
USPS Priority also requires signature and id to collect here. This also updates to the tracking info on the USPS site once the package has arrived and been signed for (within an hour of collection generally).

Andy
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I receive many USPS priority mail international small flat rate box but never a time signature is required. The mailman will just deliver like normal mail.
 
Tengster said:
I receive many USPS priority mail international small flat rate box but never a time signature is required. The mailman will just deliver like normal mail.
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If you look at USPS website, they state USPS International small flat rate box is not treated the same as other Priority mail services. It is treated like regular mail. no tracking, and you can not insure it.

Sometimes you might get an "acceptance scan" which states when and where the package went into the mail stream, but not full tracking.
 
hardheart said:
A lot of posts mention requests to reduce declared dollar value of knives shipped overseas for the buyer to save on fees. How do you determine the value? Your original purchase price? The price of the transaction? MSRP? Whatever the buyer requests?

Here's a couple situations, does your viewpoint change for any of them? The basis for all is you originally paid $100 for the knife as new from an official online dealer, MSRP was $130, and the buyer asks you to declare the value at $50. Insurance is not available. You have an electronic invoice for your purchase, the buyer's purchase from you, and ad copy listing the MSRP.

1. Knife is rare and LNIB, you sell it for $200 in a private party sale.
2. Knife is rare and carried/sharpened, you sell it for $150 in a private party sale.
3. Knife is common and LNIB, you sell for $95 in a private party sale.
4. Knife is common, carried/sharpened, sold it for $75 in a private party sale.
Click to expand...

I think there are far too many elements that are unknown to full answer this question.

For example, can a paypal claim be levied against me? If the buyer is ok with using PP gift/personal/payment owed/etc. than I'd be more open to putting whatever they wish on the customs form. That said, I'd still be quite a bit hesitant to do it (reasons mentioned above).

Is the item going to a country known for being near militaristic in collect duties/VAT/etc? If its going to Mexico then I am more likely to work with the buyer (provided the above PP question is met) but if its going to France or Germany then probably not.

Is the buyer willing to eat the loss if it gets lost/stolen/seized? If I have to collect the insurance at some point to make the buyer whole then I am not willing to reduce the claimed amount.

There are other concerns here but the question, as written, doesn't address most of them. There is a lot to think about when doing international sales.
 
ooitzoo said:
There are other concerns here but the question, as written, doesn't address most of them. There is a lot to think about when doing international sales.
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Well, the thread was not really started in an attempt to address the other concerns. I thought mentioning that insurance was not available would help limit things. I wanted to know the official guidelines or consensus from whatever nations could be represented on the specific point of how to determine the value for customs fees. I didn't see anything spelled out on the paperwork, and I figure it may vary by country.

In other instances where my local government is looking to collect on the value of goods/property, I know it is not dependent on individual transactions - such as registering a vehicle or paying property taxes. Those are set by general value/fee structures, not by individual instances where the items cost more or less than average due to condition or specific buyer/seller agreement. Just wondering if the same could be for the fee levied by customs. Do the governments agree with the prices of individual sales, or will they follow the manufacturer's suggestion, or do they follow the primary retail market in determining fees for knives?

Between January and February, Kershaw Tilts were picked up on ebay for $243 or $450. Does the government of the importing buyer get to charge two different custom fee amounts for the exact same product bought only two weeks apart? Doubling the customs charge without consideration for insurance means the buyer pays more money to the government without helping to secure delivery. It just signals the government that $450 worth of product is being imported from another country. But then again, it was also $243 worth of product. And also $350 and a couple other price points fairly well spread apart when considering the very high customs percentages in some countries.

But I may have been too specific in looking for that one piece of info, as long as some people are helped in getting advice on international shipping the participants in this thread are doing a service.
 
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