Vapor barrier explanation, please

[Ebbtide]

How do they work and how to 'make' one. I ask this because I bought Glacier Gloves for my winter fishing & I thought that they'd be real warm...not:O. They are great when you are constantly doing stuff that gets your hands wet (anchor line, bait, paddling, etc.) but they're not very warm for just fishin'
I thought that since they were waterproof they would form a vapor barrier and therefore be warm. Or would they need insulation OVER them?
Thanx in advance,
Ebbtide out.

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In the long run, luck is given only to the effecient.
-Helmut Von Moltke

 

[johno]

A vapor barrier is typically an impermeable or low permeability membrane that attempts to keep some sort of insulation dry by preventing warmer air with a higher moisture content from being drawn into insulation, as when it hits cooler air on the cooler side it will condense and wet the insulation. Most insulation works better dry then when wet. If one is used it is commonly used 'on the warm side' whether one is talking about vapor barrier socks or a vapor barrier in the walls of one's house. In a house it's common to use either plastic wrap behind the drywall, and/or kraft faced insulation with the paper on the warm side. With something like socks a common technique is to use a thinner pair of socks like acrylic casual socks, then a vapor barrier like either vapor barrier socks or just shopping bags, and then thicker socks or some sort of boot liner. Felt insoles can work wonders if you can keep them dry. If going thru such trouble it makes sense to use some sort of waterproof boot. It's an effective system that extends the lower temperature range of most boots, and saves one from trying to dry out sometimes frozen, sweat soaked thick socks or felt liners.

I think that the military vapor barrier boots, called either 'bunny boots' or 'mickey mouse boots', were developed after so many troops suffered from frozen feet in the Korean War. Vapor barrier clothing was a niche product among some backpackers when baby boomers use to populate the trails but I don't know how it's doing now. I keep small garbage bags in the car to use as small garbage bags, and for use as vapor barrier socks.

 

[Stryver]

Glacier gloves aren't proper vapor barrier wear. They are more a chunk of wetsuit someone has decided works well outside of diving, and work well they do, in chilly, watery environs. I have a pair I use when riding my bike in the rain, or other wet tasks like that, but they are merely neoprene gloves, at least the ones I have. True vapor barrier has a completely (liquid and vapor) waterproof liner, followed by insulation, and then generally another waterproof layer. Basically, it's a completely sealed layer of insulation. This keeps your sweat and body moisture from getting into the insulation, and keeps outside moisture from getting in. This is extremely effective, and reduces greatly the amount of insulation needed, but decreases comfort, and multiplies dramatically the need for dry socks and frequent foot-dryings.

As far as adding insulation over the glacier gloves, I don't think it would work if you were working in water, and if you aren't, there's no point in wearing them. It would have to be a pretty severe condition before I decided to put vapor-barrier stuff on my hands, I value dexterity and comfort there a bit too much.

I hope that covers your question. I would definately vote for glacier gloves in watery, above freezing conditions, but would be wary of sticking my hands, with them or anythign else, in water below freezing...


Stryver

 

[Ebbtide]

Thanx for the answers!
Stryver even answered the question I forgot to ask! I was wondering about the boots and baggies thing. As a kid I'd put my feet in bread bags to combat my leaky boots and the feet did get sweaty!
I guess I'll stick with my glacier gloves and leave well enough alone, the dexterity is great and those little handwarmers work ok.
Thanx again,
Ebbtide out.

 

[DM Driscoll]

For the record:

The most important thing in making a vapor barrier system work, whether it be just boots, gloves or a sleeping bag liner, is that it's only efficient/comfortable in fairly cold conditions: at or below -15 degs Celsius (about 5 F). At this point its use is as described by johno above - water impermiable material close to the skin w/ insulation outside. The theory is that once the skin reaches a certain humidity, the insensible perspiration ceases, saving on the energy expenditure & also preventing moisture build up in the insulation layer. I've used it successfully in boots & sleeping bags (adds about 5-10 deg C in warmth value), but it seems to work for some people & not others.

Regards, Dudley Driscoll