The BladeForums.com 2024 Traditional Knife is ready to order! See this thread for details:
https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/bladeforums-2024-traditional-knife.2003187/
Price is $300 $250 ea (shipped within CONUS). If you live outside the US, I will contact you after your order for extra shipping charges.
Order here: https://www.bladeforums.com/help/2024-traditional/ - Order as many as you like, we have plenty.
The edge on the SA9 is 0.060" behind the edge. To give a perspective, a typical big Randall will be 1/3rd of that...
Let's just say this edge is a couple of ticks beyond heavy-duty pry bar level... Even an old thick-edge TOPS knife will be green with envy...
The Neeley SA's handle is not secured against vibration, so it will come loose rapidly, and start unscrewing itself... On mine this happened in just few chops, in part because of my temporarily losing the buttcap O-ring, and just chopping with the naked buttcap screwed tight: Once loosened, something serious will need to be done to secure the tube handle, as the handle just gets looser and looser: Maybe some kind of thread adhesive will do the trick.
The chopping performance was surprisingly high once the edge was brought down to around 15-17 degrees per side, which for me is very thick, as all my other knives are easier to thin to 12 degrees per side.
Even at a blunt angle, the amount of metal that has to be removed to get even 30-34 inclusive is extraordinarily high. I did this by hand so there was no temper loss through raised metal temperature: Despite this extra care, the resulting edge had extremely poor edge-holding, and what you see below happened in about 30 chops on Maple: Note the extreme amount of metal that had to be removed to reach even this moderate angle:
The original edge was around 60-70 degrees inclusive, which is close to a 90 degree square corner...: Hardly a knife at all...
The SA9 was the most finely made knife I have ever seen in terms of symmetry/surface precision. The hollow grind and compound curve plunge line unfortunately make it a very problematic knife to have the blade re-ground thinner into a useable edge, at least not without huge cosmetic changes...
Handle capacity is large and sheath design excellent.
Of note is that the Neeley-made Lile designed knives are made with similarly thick 0.060" edges as the SA series, while the original pre-dot Liles ranged from 0.040" on my Sly II to 0.028" on my "Mission".
0.060" means they are basically intended as wall hangers, but this can't be the intention for the SA series. If the SA were flat ground like the Lile designs, they could be easily fixed by professional sharpeners, but complex hollow grinds like the SAs are much more difficult to thin: All you can easily do is raise an enormous edge bevel to make them marginally useable...
I find flat ground knives work better with round handles, as they reduce any tendency for the blade to roll while chopping: This is not a huge deal in practical terms, as being careful can prevent rolling, even with a hollow grind, but the tendency is more acute with a narrow blade like on the Neeley SA or Chris Reeve one-piece series...: "Locking" the grip against rolling around an hexagonal shaped guard is also easier than on oval or small guards like the Reeve models...
Because of the very poor edge-holding, and extremely thick edge, I would not recommend the SA series. But if you come across one that holds it edge, and know a sharpener that can do miracles, and know of a glue or method to secure the handle, they have some nice design features...
The one hollow handle currently made I would recommend today as useable out of the box would be the Randall Model 18, owing the thin edge and excellent edge holding. But it has poor blade mass and is not what I consider a real "shelter builder": The Randall Model 12/with 14 grind, with a sheath pouch, is a better choice.
The Liles are the best ones out there, especially with their excellent edge holding, the best design being the "Mission". In addition, they combine correctly flat grinds and hexagonal guards, but the surface finish is slightly uneven, and they could use a re-grind to improve their surfaces, if only cosmetically...
The Parrish is probably one of the better ones out there, but is a bit small to chop.
My favourites are the Colin Cox models for their thin edges, but they have oddball shapes (the "sawback" being quite useful, but only to chop through knots!). Voorhis makes some very strong models, very similar to Liles, but they are in 5160 Carbon, and have poor sheaths.
Gaston
That is because the high end models are literally never used... For instance, the notion that a broad full flat ground blade rolls less than a hollow grind, with round handles, is not widely known, because most people never really chop wood with them...
Also little known is that tube handles hit harder while chopping, because they are broader inside the thumb forefinger band of flesh, and so this broader shape moves back less "into" the hand when the blade hits. The Chris Reeve One piece models "pinch" narrower there, so they squander that advantage, unless you hold them further back, but then you cannot hit really close to the hand, which is a big disadvantage...: I much prefer a simple tube shape because of this...
Of course you can avoid hitting close to the hand by "Whipping" the blade, which is easier on the hand, hitting further out from the handle and letting the blade weight do the work, but then the bites are much less deep than hitting with a rigid hold, as close to the guard as possible (see the Trailmaster's performance below, whose handle is so narrow you can only whip the blade: The Lile "Mission", in contrast, is ideal for "rigid" hits near the guard which is unlugged: Lugged guards are more susceptible to bending...).
As far as I am aware, I am the only one to post any kind of in-use photos of Liles, Neeleys, and a few other high end hollow handles... I think there are no other posted pics of a Lile being used (but there are many, many more to come!):
You are not likely to hear about their failings with the kind of use they are getting... The two big fails I have encountered so far are the Neeley SA and the Andrew Clifford Sly II, both mainly for edge durability issues.
The 10.5" Model 9 Colin Cox I hit the guard while chopping, bending the guard: While unbending the guard, I caused the handle to separate: It was held only by the presence of a large amount of a super-strong two-part epoxy called G-Flex, widely used for custom knives, actually very good resilient stuff. Unfortunately, the handle's tube was not "roughed-up" inside to "lock" the G-Flex in place...: I roughed it up with a drill, and re-epoxied the whole knife back together using the same G-Flex material that originally held it together: It is my favourite hollow handle now, despite the lack of a true steel-on-steel mechanical lock (as Liles have), just to give you an idea that I do give them every chance I can...
I would say that on these things thick or poor performing edges are a much bigger concern than handle separation.
Gaston
Here we go again.
My apologies. Perhaps, I was thinking about your Lile knife that was "heated" for some reason and epoxy was bleeding out of the joint. Regardless, if the Timberline joint failure happened as you say, which I have no reason to doubt, it would be interesting, and educational for all, to hear Vaughn's thoughts.
Sam is third party. This is between you and Neeley. I know you are passionate about knives - get the answers yourself. Personally, if it was my knife, I wouldn't let Neeley off the hook so easily, especially if I was certain that the handle failure and crumbling edge are Timberline issues. However, it is disrespectful to bash Neeley's work publically without hearing his side of the story. After all, he is an acclaimed knifemaker and knife making is his livelihood.
That would be quite the discussion.
The way I see it, the crumbling edge was either a bad heat treat or you thinned out the edge too much. I have a feeling it was the latter and another reason to hear Neeley's side.
I would like to know Vaughn's assessment.