Venev Cenaur diamond dual sided stone issue

C

CplMurdock

Joined
Dec 15, 2021
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Good morning. I am sitting here frustrated and looking to see if anyone else has the same issue or a solution.

I recently upgraded my pocket knife sharpening setup to a TSProf Blitz 360 along with a set of Venev Centaur double sided stones from Gritomatic. The sharpener is fantastic quality and at first glance so are the Venev Diamond stones. However, my set of Venev stones is not consistent with one another. They are all different thicknesses which makes it impossible to keep a consistent sharpening angle when changing between stones.

I purchased three stones, a 100/240, a 400/800, and a 1200/1500. The first two, 100/240 and 400/800 are almost identical with one end of the 400/800 being slightly thicker than the other. This is barely noticeable when setting the coarser two down side by side on a flat and level surface. The slight variation causes the angle to change when swapping stones but not realistically any more than when a stone isn’t completely seated in the stone holder. The greater issue is with the 1200/1500 stone. It is visibly thicker at one end and is thicker that either of the other two stones. There is no way to keep a consistent angle when changing to this stone. Is this the same experience had by most Venev diamond stone buyers? Do the Edge Pro matrix stones have this issue? Do the Venev Orion stones have this issue?

I realistically want a set of stones that at least all start out the same thickness “at least I think I do because it seems like the only way to get a consistent and near perfect bevel. I know that over time, stones will wear at different rates but with modern diamond matrix stones I don’t believe this is something I should be having to deal with, at least when they are brand new.

I’m looking for advice, should I fix or return this set? Is there a better option? Am I looking for perfection when I should instead be using an angle finder every single time I change stones and be happy with my Venev stones?

Thanks in advance for the help!
 
I have Venev bench stones and also noticed that they're quite inconsistent. A particular grit is about 2mm thick on one end and only around 1mm on the other end.

I don't have the Matrix stones, but I have the CGSW stones for KME by the same maker and they are very consistent. The different grits vary in thickness by no more than a few hundredths of an inch, and that may be due to lapping.
 
My Venev Ursa dual sided stones are all within a gnat’s a$$ of each other. How big is the difference? How much does the angle change?
 
It would help if you could measure the differences so we really know what you're talking about. A cheap pair of calipers would be real handy for this and for when you are dressing them. I have found that when the stone thicknesses are over .01" different then the bevel starts to show it. As in the stone only removes the scratches on part of the bevel after a normal number of strokes, on a guided sharpener with 8" between the pivot and knife edge. Sure the bevel will eventually clean up, but you will need to make many extra strokes to do it. The more even your stones are in thickness the faster you can sharpen a knife.

On the stones I make the 160 micron, or 80 grit, vary up to .01" ish in thickness, the 80 micron, 250 grit, vary up to .004" ish, and the rest vary less. The coarser grits vary from a nominal .248" to thicker as the diamonds get between the aluminum backs and mold increasing the thickness. My reasoning for not worrying about the extra thickness with the 160 micron stones is you can't really refine the edge with them anyway and will have to do a little more work with the 80 micron stone before going to the next step. Plus they only get thicker than nominal, never thinner, so you're not getting short changed.
 
I use the Matrix stones at home and can attest to Diemakers statement above. But I. Guess from habit w put an angle guide on it between stones. Doesn’t vary.
 
Thank you for the replies. I need to pick up a set of calipers to measure the actual thickness variation between stones. I’ll also try to get a picture. When the stones are places side by side with a flat edge on the thickest stone there is easily light seen between the straight edge and the slightly smaller stones.

how much can I even change the size of these stones by dressing them on a piece of glass with powder SIC? Is ordering an edge pro glass and 240 grit powder worth the effort?
 
I'm not qualified to answer that as I don't know their construction. If you're talking about dressing them. use the 240 grit powder on a larger piece of glass, but that isn't meant to resize a stone. I'll back and leave it to the pro's.
 
The Venev Centaurs on Gritomatic are
- 80/140
- 240/400
- 800/1200

Did you write down the wrong grits or you have a different set?

If you decide to flatten and need a piece of glass, go to Home Depot and buy a piece of square glass for like $7-$10.
 
Unless the thickness difference is measured in millimeters I doubt if you’d notice anything. I played with my Hapstone and took a degree reading with stone resting on the blade, then I placed a ruler between the stone and the edge and angle only changed by 2 tenths of a degree.
 
I have 2 of those stones and mine also are not the same size. It's probably only half a mm but in all 3 dimensions. I only use them freehand though so it's never bothered me.
 
I have only tried dressing an older 80 grit Venev stone once. I found that after a minute or two trying to thin one end that was .01" thicker than the other it didn't change the thickness at all with 60 grit sic. If I was going to try to change the thickness of one of these stones I would get some 24 grit or so either black sic or brown alox. This may seem coarse but try dressing one for a minute and measure with your calipers to see what happens. I wouldn't try getting all the stones to the same thickness, just get them even end to end.

I was trying out a set of SG stones that I was borrowing to try them out. To do this I would inspect the bevel with my microscope after each stone. This is how I found out that a .02" difference in stone thickness really screwed the sharpening progression up. After my normal number of passes with each stone only half of the .05" wide bevel got cleaned up. This was on a Henckels knife so the stones cut it just fine. If your stone's thicknesses differ by more than .01" then you need to compensate, but keeping it closer will help. You can get away with a little more with your coarsest stones since they don't refine the edge.

Porcelainized ceramic tiles are a lot harder and more wear resistant than glass. For 4" stones they don't need to be perfectly flat, that is more for the bigger stones. With an 8" stone you will really notice it if your lapping plate isn't perfectly flat, at least if your stone is you will.
 
Diemaker, and everyone else who has taken the time to respond, thank you.

the difference in thickness is enough that without compensating I am getting quite uneven polish on the bevel as described by diemaker in the above post. Even with a visual inspection by eye, without any magnification, the uneven bevel is noticeable. I did spend a couple minutes last night swapping them end to end while next to each other and was alble to find an orientation that is much closer that what I first noticed. I am hoping that by marking the ends and using them in the same orientation each time I can get repeatablity with my sharpening.

Revival29, yes I have Venev Centaur stones. I did not buy the pre packaged set and instead opted to piece my own set together to have the higher final grit. Maybe getting the set packaged by gritomatic would have been the way to get three better matched stones.
 
Matching ends won't make any difference, they will still contact the bevel the same distance from the pivot no matter which orientation they are mounted in.
 
alright, I wanted to get accurate measurements and didn’t have a set of digital calipers on hand, so I ordered some and they came in today. I spent a few minutes measuring the stones and below are the results. I’ve included two measurements for each stone since they are all three thicker at one end than the other. I’m curious if those of you with Venev stones have the same variations and I’m being really picky or if the .1 degree change I experience when changing stones is something I should be ok dealing with.

I don’t want to be picky, but I’d like to know I got my moneys worth at the same time.

100/240 stone is 10.62mm to 10.82mm
400/800 stone is 10.50mm to 10.88mm
1200/1500 stone is 10.92mm to 11.15mm
 
I can’t imagine that those thickness variations, and a .1° difference in sharpening angle would make any difference. I’ll have to measure my Ursa’s and see what I get. BTW, have you called Gritomatic and asked if these are within spec?
 
Crn3371, I agree with you to a certain extent but the uneven polish on the bevel of my knives causes me to pause and question the variances in stone thickness.

I emailed gritomatic and received a response yesterday asking for measurements of the stones. I sent a response to them with the mm measurements and am waiting for an email back. From the thinnest stone, to the thickest, there is over half a mm difference and it is definitely noticeable on the bevel when sharpening.

the .1 variance in angle is when I clock the stones into the orientation listed in my post. I hadn’t done so when I made my first post here and If the ends get turned around mid sharpening the angle changes quite a bit more.
 
Here are the results from the Ursa’s
80/150 - 10.75mm/10.80mm
240/400 - 10.94mm/11.06mm
800/1200 - 10.65mm/10.88mm
Not all that dissimilar from yours
 
Thanks for taking the time to measure yours crn3371. Your’s are definitely tighter tolerance than mine but I am starting to believe I may be overthinking this whole thing.
 
Look in this forum for a post I made asking about uneven bevels, and asking about angle variations when flipping the knives on my R2. 777Edge made a reply explaining the geometry involved and how the variations made very little difference with the final result. I too was overthinking things, fine tuning the angle every time I flipped the knife. I stopped overthinking, looking for perfection, and started enjoying scary sharp knives.
 
crn3371 said:
Look in this forum for a post I made asking about uneven bevels, and asking about angle variations when flipping the knives on my R2. 777Edge made a reply explaining the geometry involved and how the variations made very little difference with the final result. I too was overthinking things, fine tuning the angle every time I flipped the knife. I stopped overthinking, looking for perfection, and started enjoying scary sharp knives.
Click to expand...
Thanks for this. I will look for the post you are referring to. after a decade of using a Lansky and thinking my knives were sharp, I have to admit that this TSProf has definitely made my knives sharper than they have ever been. I’m just looking for more. I feel like the jump and the finish ”should” have been even better. As you said “over thinking things”, when I need to be just enjoying scary sharp knives.
 
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