Vertical blade play on high end knives

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Ok I have another stupid question:

When people talk about the amount of vertical play, how much movement is there under how much force?

0.1 mm under full muscle flex or 1 mm under slight finger movement?
 
mat_ski said:
Ok I have another stupid question:

When people talk about the amount of vertical play, how much movement is there under how much force?

0.1 mm under full muscle flex or 1 mm under slight finger movement?
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While there may be someone here with the instuments and desire to measure, for most it is going to be feel and sight.
How picky and how much effort they go through to find it will vary person to person.
Some will be freaked out with any movement when putting the knife in a vice and jumping on the blade :)
And god forbid if someone posts on the web, that a certain knife has blade play. Suddenly hundreds will find play with a knife they have carried for years with no complaints.
 
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I've noticed people tend to have low tolerance for blade play, I tend to draw the line at front and back blade play because the repeated act of using the knife to curly stuff seems to exacerbate it
 
Eliteone2383 said:
Let me ask you a question if I may. As a knifemaker and craftsman yourself, what is your opinion on why a USA manufacturer would allow a $500+ knife leave its doors with vertical blade play or issues at all?
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I suspect the shortest of short answers one manufacturer (may) give, is "it doesn't affect performance"
There was a time where I bought almost every 12C27 knife from karesuando and they all had issues, divots that looked like pitting, open grains in the tang that looked like cracks, I told the seller and he emailed them and after forever came back with the same phrase "they said it doesn't affect performance". And they were right, batoning didn't exacerbate the cracks. Etc etc. So if the knife doesn't pop off like the arm of your favorite g.i. Joe or rattle like maracas then ... 'it doesn't affect performance'
 
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I had some play on my first custom folding knife from my late dear friend Kit Carson. Turned out a washer was out of spec...he replaced it and that was that.

I have had some knives that had unacceptable issues, mostly among custom knives over a period of many years...and all of the makers made it right or accepted the knife back.

I haven't had to return any high end production folders that come to mind, but I may have forgotten one or two over the decades.

There are worse things than a knife that has an issue, and I try to keep it in perspective when a problem arises. Though I have had one or two that made me wonder how in the world did this get sent to me in the condition received.
 
Blues said:
Though I have had one or two that made me wonder how in the world did this get sent to me in the condition received.
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My experiences with two case small stockman. One blade had valleys of play while the second was misaligned so badly to the point that the third blade couldn't be seated in the handle (scales?) And stuck out, making it dangerous for a pocket. I don't think I'll risk buying a third
 
ShaiHulud said:
My experiences with two case small stockman. One blade had valleys of play while the second was misaligned so badly to the point that the third blade couldn't be seated in the handle (scales?) And stuck out, making it dangerous for a pocket. I don't think I'll risk buying a third
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I've had that as well...and poked myself a time or two. On inexpensive slipjoints I just filed the kick to drop it a tad. On custom knives I didn't want to mar the knife.

Even custom guys have left the point where it can grab material and open in the pocket, or nip a finger on withdrawal.
 
Blues said:
I have had some knives that had unacceptable issues, mostly among custom knives over a period of many years..
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Same here and it's why I won't buy or support customs any longer. ( Me being as I am ) Unlike your experiences I have had issues both getting in touch with a maker and who's responsible, once accused of tampering with a folder.

Don't get me wrong there is some Awesome Customs out there, I just don't want to play back and forth with a knife that costs so much I guess.
 
ClickBoom said:
Unlike your experiences I have had issues both getting in touch with a maker and who's responsible, once accused of tampering with a folder.
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That's odd.
Don't you have there some sort of buyers protection?
If I go to the store and buy a product I have 12 days to return it. They would have to replace it or refund me. The same goes if I buy from internet.
In any case, if I'm not satisfied with the product in any way I will get replacement or refund.
 
TheOne45 said:
Not necessarily.
-Horizontal play: if the knife has ball bearings you can squeeze the pivot screw and adjust for no play but the knife will stil open and close without a problem.
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You can do the same thing with a knife on washers.

TheOne45 said:
-Vertical play because of space between the pivot and blade hole
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This is possible but is probably the least likely to cause any blade play while locked open. There are a few things that can cause vertical blade play but this is the last one I would be concerned with.

TheOne45 said:
(hole diameter is larger then pivot diameter):
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The pivot hole has to be larger than the pin.

TheOne45 said:
But if the knife has liner lock it will push the blade in front when you open it and there will be no vertical play.
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This makes no sense. Perhaps you can elaborate?
 
Blues said:
I had some play on my first custom folding knife from my late dear friend Kit Carson. Turned out a washer was out of spec...he replaced it and that was that.

I have had some knives that unacceptable issues, mostly among custom knives over a period of many years...and all of the makers made it right or accepted the knife back.

I haven't had to return any high end production folders that come to mind, but I may have forgotten one or two over the decades.

There are worse things than a knife that has an issue, and I try to keep it in perspective when a problem arises. Though I have had one or two that made me wonder how in the world did this get sent to me in the condition received.
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And that's really my only hang up.
 
TheOne45 said:
Sure it makes. Just think or better, make a drawing how a knife with liner lock work and you will figure it out.
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I don't need to make a drawing of a liner lock. I make plenty of the real thing.

If you can't explain what you mean, maybe you don't know what you're talking about?
 
Insulting or Rude behavior
J. Doyle said:
If you can't explain what you mean, maybe you don't know what you're talking about?
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If you can't figure out by yourself maybe you are not as smart as you think.
So, from top to bottom:
stopping pin
pivot
liner lock
You open the knife. Liner lock locks the blade and also pushing the blade forward, at the top the bade leans on stopping pin and also on pivot pin.
If the liner lock would not pushing the blade forward there would be no locking.
Right?
 
J. Doyle said:
don't need to make a drawing of a liner lock. I make plenty of the real thing.
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You make real things?
So you should know how liner locks work.
Dissasemble a knife with liner lock and try to figure out where are touching point.
 
TheOne45 said:
That's odd.
Don't you have there some sort of buyers protection?
If I go to the store and buy a product I have 12 days to return it. They would have to replace it or refund me. The same goes if I buy from internet.
In any case, if I'm not satisfied with the product in any way I will get replacement or refund
Click to expand...

I was able to send one back and had it fixed, I sold it soon as it came back, the other I was never able to get in contact with the maker and sold it on an auction site and lost some $.

It just left a bad taste in my mouth for sure, I have been tempted a few times to buy another custom but haven't yet.
 
91bravo said:
Some types of locks are prone to up/down blade play. Back locks and axis locks come to mind. It’s the nature of the beast due to the geometry of the lock up and the locking forces at play.
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No. No. No.
If you cant make a clean tight, lockface, adapt it to your machining skill or spend time on hand finishing, a chinese cnc will do it "better" and cheaper
 
elasmonut said:
No. No. No.
If you cant make a clean tight, lockface, adapt it to your machining skill or spend time on hand finishing, a chinese cnc will do it "better" and cheaper
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So go buy your cheaper chinese cnc knafs and be happy!
 
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