Vertical Forge & Billet Question

S

schwatk

Joined
May 1, 2008
Messages
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I am just starting to try my hand at forge welding Damascus/Pattern Welded billets. I have one of Darren Ellis's 8" vertical forges on the way. One question I have from my reading of books and forums concerns the billet while it is in the forge. Many people apparently weld a rebar handle to it. And this suspends the billet in the vertical forge. While others like Dr. Jim Hrisoulas
wire the billet together and just set it in their horizontal forge without a handle. If I wanted to wire my billet together instead of welding on a handle how could I suspend the billet in my vertical forge?

I'm sure this will be the first of many questions I will be posting in the future.

Thanks for any and all help!

Joe
 
You pretty much have two (and a half) choices......the "half" being
allowing one of the laminations to extend far enough to be used as
a handle. The drawback to that is, that sort of handle will usually
only last through the second or third weld....after that (if you continue)
you either attatch a new handle, or sacrifice part of the billet as a handle.

The attatched handle is the better way to go.....if you have a welder.
 
I have forgewelded handles on doing a droptong weld, it's a pain in the tuchass, I have also folded in a tapered end of a chunk of 3/4x3/4 square, or added in an extra layer of 1084 in the center using a full length 4 footer as a handle, always these improvisations were because I was somewhere that there was no welder and someone wanted me to demonstrate making a billet. I have done handleless billets as well (doesn't work so well in a vertical, I did butt-weld a handle onto a billet that was sitting on the bottom of my Fogg style vertical by sharply driving the handle into the billet, I don't advise it. I had to reline the forge shortly after that)

-Page
 
Welcome to the addiction! :)

Russ pretty much has it right. If you've chosen to go with a vertical forge, you're better off arc welding. Some folks have had success with putting a "bridge" of thick stainless steel between the from and back to sit things on, so you could try that, but if you drop one into the forge you're stopped until it cools down, you tear it apart, and fish it back out....

-d
 
why would you have objections to welding a handle onto a billet? If you don't have a walder that is one thing but if you have some reaso why don't you share it with us?
 
I do have a MIG welder and have welded a handle on once. But Dr. Jim Hrisoulas whom I know as Atar believes there is a chance of the welding material getting between the layers and contaminating the billet. Since I'm just starting out I would like to limit any potential problems from the start.

Joe



Bill Burke said:
why would you have objections to welding a handle onto a billet? If you don't have a walder that is one thing but if you have some reaso why don't you share it with us?
Click to expand...
 
schwatk said:
I do have a MIG welder and have welded a handle on once. But Dr. Jim Hrisoulas whom I know as Atar believes there is a chance of the welding material getting between the layers and contaminating the billet. Since I'm just starting out I would like to limit any potential problems from the start.

Joe
Click to expand...

I clamp up the billet solid and square when doing the arc welding which limits the possibility of spatter getting in, yes there is always a risk of contamination getting into a billet, flux the heck out of it and get on with it. I cut off the arcweld zone back to good metal and have not had issues
-Page
 
Dr Jim is an icon when it comes to making damascus but if you do as Page(sunshadow) suggested and clamp everything tight there is little risk of having weldament in your billet. I have a cheap drill press vise that I put my stack in and then clamp it tight then weld across the corners of the stack to hold all the layers together and if I am using thin stock for the stack I run a bead across the middle of the stack on each side and weld a handle on one end. I weld the billet and after two or three welding heats grind the welds off the center of the stack and continue as normal. if you are worried then grind all the welds off and leave only the handle. when you are through welding the billet cut off the handle and any weld left from welding on the handle.
 
There are trade offs with any system. I got a lot of my early information from Dr. Jim's books,too. I later learned for many damascus makers that the vast majority weld up their billets. Some even totally weld them up ( every seam), and dry weld the stack in the forge with no flux at all. Some makers claim that Hrisoulas' method can cause the bailing wire to be accidentally forge welded into the billet and make contamination problems. I recommend the welded billet and a sturdy handle.
 
I bind my billets with uncoated fencing wire. After welding, I peel
all (or most) of the wire off. If any does remain, it is sluffed off
with the first layer of scale.....Little or no potential for contamination.
 
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