Vertical or horizontal quench.

I'm going to put together a vertical quench tank. I got the idea both vertical and full blade quench was a good way to go with thin blades (paring, fillet, small folder, etc.). I don't really know if that is right.

Anyhow, can I get some ideas from you all about what minimum height and diameter a vertical quench tank for a 15" (maximum length) blade needs to be?

Mike Krall
 
for full quench I use auto exht tube welded to 1/4" plate for it to stand up
I have four different lengths and sizes , I don't see the need to heat any more oil than I have to at a time, that was my reasoning at the time of making them..of course a shallower pan for edge quenching horizontally
 
Mike, I don't think you can have too much quenchant. You can, however, have too little.

Lots of folks use something that's barely bigger than the blade... but the idea is to cool the steel quick enough to get past the nose of the curve. I knew a guy that used to quench his blades in one of those little tiny coffee cans. Half the time he couldn't get his blades fully hard.

He switched to a bigger tank and has no problems. He has been using a Paragon furnace the whole time, so his problem wasn't a poorly controlled heat-source.

I would say at least a couple gallons to answer your question. :)

-Nick-
http://www.wheelerknives.com
 
safe is better than sorry for sure , but over kill is over kill to..
keeping the oil from going over a curtain temperature for the next quench is just as important imho
if you can get past the curve in the time needed and repeat that at the same temperature
for the next quench it's the way I'd want it.
if you over heat a lot of oil it also takes longer to cool a lot of oil.

I'll put it this way
if I quench one blade in 2 gals (more than enough for most blades) of oil at say 165 deg's
the quench will raze the temperature, no problem, it's done it's job for the one blade.
to repeat the quench results I'd want the oil to cool back to 165 deg's. that takes time.
of course the size of the steel and thermal transfer will determine the heat needed to be removed.
BUT...say I have 3 blades to quench
if I have 3 vessels that holds 2 gals and each are at 165 degs I can quench all of them at will.

if you have a way to cool the oil to 165 as fast as you can raze it up to 165
then that would be good but most of us don't have coolers built in.
. I know it's knit picking but if you want equal results you have to have
equal situations..of course you can just WAIT and WAIT and WAIT ;) for the oil to cool back down on it's own. :)

if you heat treat one at a time never mind :D
 
I use a deep stainless steel steam table container(resturant food buffet) as a quench tank. Dimensions are about 12"x18"x8" and it will easily hold 5gal.
My heat source is pieces of mild steel, heated in the forge. For multiple quenches, I can add some cold oil from the fridge to lower the temp. No waiting.
 
An interesting idea just occurred to me (scary,I know!).I'm going put a transmission oil cooler in the recirculation line on my 10 gallon,thermostatically controlled quench tank.In the past I've drained off a gallon or two and added cold(room temp) oil to lower the temp.It won't be hard to add a cooler, and should extend the number of blades on multiple quenches.I like the refrigerated oil idea.too.
 
Stacy I like that idea. I've always added cool oil too but that's a mess for me - just a turkey baster and if you've ever tried to pour stuff out of one of those you know what I mean! I just need to get a welder and build a tank, and build a thermostatically controlled heater and cooler into it. Dang, I bet someone could market that! :D
 
Nick and Dan and "NC",

Thank you all for answering the question.

When I needed to cool down a small horizontal quench, I set a big hunk of motor grader cutting edge in it. I waited and waited, so I understand you, Dan. I don't know if I'll ever quench more than one blade at a time.

Mike
 
Mike,at times I quench ten or more blades.Heat up is a real problem.Give yourself time,you will be doing more than one eventually.
Stacy
 
bladsmth said:
Mike,at times I quench ten or more blades.Heat up is a real problem.Give yourself time,you will be doing more than one eventually.
Stacy
Click to expand...

OK... I'll put multiple quench equipment on the long term list and start looking for parts and pieces... thanks.

Mike Krall
 
Kevin R. Cashen said:
Mark my experience has shown me that this question is determined by the shape of the blade, and of course the quenching medium. Obviously double edged blades need to be vertically quenched so that one is sorted out right away, bowies and other wide single edged blades seem to handle both vertical and horizontal as long as there is not a great disparity between the spine and the edge thickness. But some ornery cross sections where the profile is fairly simple, the blade is long and the spine is thick compared to the edge, like a dirk, a narrow chefs knife, or traditional tanto need a particular quench direction in oil to avoid the dreaded reverse curve. I have personally found (results may vary) that a vertical quench is the worst for these, and have been able to compensate quite well with a horizontal spine down quench (important- this is without the Japanese clay thing, that clay changes all the parameters, I have been misquoted enough by folks that assume every quench includes clay coating).

Of course anything that can be marquenched/martempered in my shop is done vertically.
Click to expand...

I was just re-reading this thread from the beginning, Mark Williams original question of "do you quench horizontally or vertically" and Kevin Cashen's quoted response. A couple of things dawned on me:

1) Kevin isn't talking "edge quenching" in relation to horizontal quenching and that implies differential tempering or not.

2) I don't know enough about blade cross-sections to differentiate between great disparity and not-great dispartity of spine and edge thickness".

I'm thinking about blade cross-section differences and reaction to quenching but I understand "differential tempering or not" isn't solely quench-success related.

An example: A 1/16" to 3/32" spine on a 1/2" and 1" wide blade looks like "not great disparity" to me but neither blade is a wide hunter or bowie.

Mike Krall

PS -- Yah, I know I didn't ask a question... I don't know enough to know how.
 
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