Very Disappointing Becker BK11

D

Dave568

Joined
May 24, 2005
Messages
118
I just got my brand new Becker BK11 in the mail today. I was initially impressed with the sheath, satisfied with the ergonomics of the handle, and very pleased with the tight fit of the knife into the sheath. However, when I began some initial cutting tests, I was very, very disappointed. Out of the box, this new Becker BK11 could not push cut paper. It would not even make a smooth cut in the paper if I stabbed right into it first. It felt very dull to the touch. The tip was a joke, I could just about drop it onto my bare foot with no ill effects. After almost 2 hours on the sharpmaker, I am just about the give up. I tried the magic marker trick to see what was going on, and no matter what angle I use on the sharpmaker, one entire side of the edge is not being touched, except for the tiniest little part up by the top of the grind. This is the second becker knife I have used, and this is the second becker knife that I am having trouble sharpening. I never have any trouble sharpening Spydercos, Benchmades, Ontario, or anything else I own.

Does anyone have any suggestion for me, short of going out and spending money on new sharpening tools?
 
Take the hones out of the Sharpmaker, close the box up and turn it over so that Spyderco logo part is touching the top of your sharpening table (if you have a non-skid surface, life will be good). Place the brown hones in the two slots on the bottom. Pretend you have a waterstone and use this technique.

Concentrate mainly on the side where the Sharpmaker wasn't touching the edge. You will have to clean your hones a few times, too, as they'll load up with steel. The folks at Lee Valley and Hyland Hardware say that using water with just a drop of soap in it on the ceramic hones will reduce how quickly they clog up with steel.

Don't linger to long on any step or the fact that you're using two semi-loose hones will manifest itself in the form of a large groove in the edge of your knife. Once you can raise a burr on both sides, reapply magic marker and try as normal again.
 
I found that for many knives, especially the Becker line, I needed the diamond triangles for the sharpmaker. With my BK-2 Companion, the angles were over 25 degrees each side...I actually used a file to bring them down to 15 degrees each side then put a bevel on it with the 20 degree holes on the sharpmaker. Great knives once you have them "tuned" up.
 
There are not many companies that run a decent edge geometry like Spyderco does. Likely the edge bevel is around 25 deg. and the Sharpmaker is not really suitable for geometry adjustments. Easiest and cheapest way is to buy a coarse (diamond) stone (DMT for example). Make a little wedge at 10-15 deg and scrub away till you reach the edge. Holding an angle is not overly important at this step as long as you don't let the angle creep up beyond 15 deg. After that sharpen as you normally would with all four steps on the Sharpmaker.
 
Dave568 said:
I tried the magic marker trick to see what was going on, and no matter what angle I use on the sharpmaker, one entire side of the edge is not being touched, except for the tiniest little part up by the top of the grind.
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This is common on a lot of knives, the grind is heavily lopsided. The easiest solution is to make the Sharpmaker lopsided to match. Stick something under the far end on the side that matches and this will force the other side to be more obtuse. Adjust the height of what you stick under it by checking on the marker until you get the right adjustment. I use little bits of hardwood and just write on them which knives they are for. You can also use a tapered wedge if you want to get creative and get a smooth adjustment from 20/20 to basically 40/0 which allows chisel grind sharpening.

-Cliff
 
lol, how does Becker come up with these numbers? I thought the BK11 had an 11 inch blade and I was about to say you were insane for trying to reprofile that on a Sharpmaker, but I looked it up and it is the Necker. But I think you would still thank yourself later if you bought a coarse or combination aluminum stone or a small diamond lap.
 
Alright, can anyone recommend for me a decently inexpensive coarse diamond hone that I could order to try and even out this edge a bit?

Also, someone mentioned that most companies aren't as good as Spyderco at grinding even edges at the factory. While I agree Spyderco is certainly the best, I haven't ever encountered an edge like this from any company until I tried out a Becker :(
 
The only product I've tried is the 4 inch diamond stone (coarse/blue 45 micron, about 325 grit) that I got from the hardware store for 12 or so bucks Canadian (9-10 US).

From DMT, under the brand Dia-Sharp. Middle of the page:
http://www.dmtsharp.com/products/diasharp.htm

I think the sides are slightly higher than the middle of the plate. It's not a aggressive now after about 10 months, but I've used it a fair amount. Still has life left. Although one of the things with diamond plates is that since the plate is steel, it tends to magnetize blade a little as you move it back and forth.
 
kel_aa said:
lol, how does Becker come up with these numbers?
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Sequential with release I think.

Dave568 said:
Alright, can anyone recommend for me a decently inexpensive coarse diamond hone that I could order to try and even out this edge a bit?
Click to expand...

If you want to regrind the edge then I would recommend a silicon carbide waterstone. These are extremely aggressive, you could rip the edge on the becker in half in literally minutes. You can find these in hardware stores though they are usually called axe or utility hones or similar. They are really coarse and fairly soft, you can rake a nail down them for example and gouge out a track readily. There are also harder ones, usually called oil stones and these work *much* slower in comparison. You can also just buy a 80 grit one inch belt for a belt sander and staple it onto a piece of hardwood and use it like a file. That will rip off steel even faster than the silicon carbide waterstone.

-Cliff
 
What colour are the silicon carbide stones, usually? I generally call all the grey ones "aluminum" stones.
 
The cheapest way to reprofile the edge is to use Wet or Dry silicon carbide sandpaper. Buy a variety pack with something like 60 grit to 220 grit. Cut the paper lengthwise in around 3 inch wide (ll inch long) strips. Find something hard and flat like a formica counter top. Duct tape the ends of your coarsest grit strip to your flat surface. Hone back and forth on the paper at about a 10 degree angle. Keep working until you completely eliminate the original sharpening bevel and start to form a burr. This new bevel will be about twice as wide as your original bevel. Replace the sandpaper strip with a new strip of the coarse grit and rework the bevel on the other side (using new paper will make this go faster). Switch to the next finer grit and smooth the surface of both sides. Go through your whole grit series. Make your last dozen strokes alternating left/ride side with strokes running edge-forwards like you were shaving the paper (this reduces burrs).

Now go back and use your Sharpmaker in the "30-degree" slots. Work through the edges to the flats of the dark rods(be sure you always alternate stroking the left-side/right-side with every pair of strokes). Switch to the 40-degree slots and do a few light deburring strokes on the flats of the dark rods. Go back to the 30-degree slots and do about 10 more light left/right stroke pairs.

Switch to the white rods and repeat the preceding paragraph.

Finish with a few light strokes on the flats of the white rods set in the 20-degree slots.

PS. If you don't have a nice hard-flat formica countertop a cheap surface would be a hardboard, plastic, or metal clipboard.
 
Silicon carbide waterstones are green, the oil stones are usually blue/black. Aluminum oxide is usually red/brown.

-Cliff
 
kel_aa, Common bench hones are made from aluminum-oxide or silicon-carbide. Aluminum-oxide hones are a bit softer and tend to leave a smoother finish. Silicon-carbide is harder and tends to cut faster and leave a rougher finish. It is often hard to tell which is which at a hardware store. I have never found a waterstone at my local hardware store. I have to go to a knife shop or woodworkers specialty store for those. They tend to cost a lot more than the common bench stones that you use dry or with oil. The color of bench stones is rather arbitrary and you can't tell what type of abrasive is used reliably by color. Most cheap hones that I have found are grey regardless of abrasive typs.

Here is a chart about sharpening speed (click to enlarge).
 

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frugalweaver said:
Learn how to sharpen a knife.
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Exactly.

There's nothing wrong with that Becker. It just needs a good profile and a nice sharpening. You don't reprofile with a Sharpmaker. :)
 
Dave568 said:
Alright, can anyone recommend for me a decently inexpensive coarse diamond hone that I could order to try and even out this edge a bit?
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As luck would have it, RevolverGeek (Danny is a great guy to deal with) has an extra-coarse and a fine DMT diamond sharpener for sale right now over on the Gadgets & Gear forum (link below). $20 ea or $38 for the pair, shipped.
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=408264
 
Silicon carbide waterstones are green, the oil stones are usually blue/black. Aluminum oxide is usually red/brown.
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We don't get those pretty stones here in the boon-docks of Toronto and Windsor, Cliff. :D Actually, I've seen the coloured ones at Lee valley, but mucho dollars, and never entered my mind

The color of bench stones is rather arbitrary and you can't tell what type of abrasive is used reliably by color. Most cheap hones that I have found are grey regardless of abrasive typs.
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I got a medium one from Norton, and I know that one to be aluminum oxide. I also found a brick sized coarse one that I don't know what it is. It's quite porous, a lot closer to say brick material than the Norton, and not that soft. I suppose it doesn't matter, as long as it works.
 
RokJok said:
As luck would have it, RevolverGeek (Danny is a great guy to deal with) has an extra-coarse and a fine DMT diamond sharpener for sale right now over on the Gadgets & Gear forum (link below). $20 ea or $38 for the pair, shipped.
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=408264
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That is a great deal and I don't even know the guy, better jump on that one! Get both! They are usually $28 each retail price.
 
Cliff Stamp said:
If you want to regrind the edge then I would recommend a silicon carbide waterstone. These are extremely aggressive, you could rip the edge on the becker in half in literally minutes. You can find these in hardware stores though they are usually called axe or utility hones or similar. They are really coarse and fairly soft, you can rake a nail down them for example and gouge out a track readily. -Cliff
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Thank you Cliff. I have never read a description of these as "water stones" but it makes sense. I have had many, and even bought ten at one time at a Dollar Tree Store for $.99 EA. They came in recycled yellow card board boxes,with gaudy printed tissue wrappers, SwordFish brand I think ; mostly Chinese characters. They so wear quickly, but Boy Howdee, do thy work fast. On all but the hardest steels they will raise a bur in a New york minute. (I always thought they were just soft , cheesy oil stones, and have found they work fine with kerosene.:thumbup: )
 
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