VERY dull knife

I have been dying to ask this question...on this forum...so here goes.

How about a file? Just a plain old file? No diamonds, just carefully file the thing to the profile you want and then go to your stones. I have been reading this forum for awhile and I never hear anybody doing this. I would think it safer than any sort of power tool from the standpoint of heat build up. And if one were careful, and one's file was sharp and not too course, you could cut the unwanted metal away and then polish it up. Couldn't one do that?

I have the whole DMT diamond lineup...love them...starting at X-Course. So far, I haven't resorted to a file because I haven't found myself in the OPs position. Is 154CM harder than a file?
 
ubet said:
Very coarse cheap wet stones, followed with arkansas stones and a strop always have worked for me. Newer technology isnt always better.
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time, effort, and skill do play a part in using that system, technology makes things easier, faster, and sharper. its a fact!

I mean sure I could walk 20 miles to and from work every day but I say fk it, I'll take my car!:cool:
 
HoosierQ said:
I have been dying to ask this question...on this forum...so here goes.

How about a file? Just a plain old file? No diamonds, just carefully file the thing to the profile you want and then go to your stones. I have been reading this forum for awhile and I never hear anybody doing this. I would think it safer than any sort of power tool from the standpoint of heat build up. And if one were careful, and one's file was sharp and not too course, you could cut the unwanted metal away and then polish it up. Couldn't one do that?

I have the whole DMT diamond lineup...love them...starting at X-Course. So far, I haven't resorted to a file because I haven't found myself in the OPs position. Is 154CM harder than a file?
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I've been testing that very thing for a client this week. I bought some hard black files from McMaster Carr and mounted them. They cut great on some unhardened metal stock. When I put them to use on the heat treated 154CM blades I use for testing, the files were really slow. The 50 grit diamonds were faster by orders of magnitude.
 
Yep, files won't cut most of the steels we like in a folder. There are a few exceptions, but generally the mid and high end steels just giggle at files. I am of the opinion that big choppers and machetes should be sharpenable with a file. I came to that opinion after sharpening my Panga machete with a file, 220/1000 waterstone, and a strop. My belt sander was on the fritz and I needed a sharp machete. Took about half an hour or so.
 
me2 said:
Yep, files won't cut most of the steels we like in a folder. There are a few exceptions, but generally the mid and high end steels just giggle at files. I am of the opinion that big choppers and machetes should be sharpenable with a file. I came to that opinion after sharpening my Panga machete with a file, 220/1000 waterstone, and a strop. My belt sander was on the fritz and I needed a sharp machete. Took about half an hour or so.
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you realize it takes about 2-5 mins on a paper wheel to get a mirror shaving sharp edge right? I dont think the zombies are gonna wait 30 mins for you to sharpen up your machette :)
 
eccvets said:
you realize it takes about 2-5 mins on a paper wheel to get a mirror shaving sharp edge right? I dont think the zombies are gonna wait 30 mins for you to sharpen up your machette :)
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Man, paper wheels must be fast with all this free-time people have to come on and brag about them.

Anyway, if your steel is even soft enough to be worked by a file, then the biggest problem is creating more work for yourself by using a file that is too aggressive and will leave tool marks that are too large to grind out. You will wind up using a coarse stone to grind those out and by that time you probably would have been better off just using the coarse stone. I mean, I've used files to rest the bevels on seriously damaged knives, but past that it's generally just making the whole process longer.
 
clayallison said:
I've been testing that very thing for a client this week. I bought some hard black files from McMaster Carr and mounted them. They cut great on some unhardened metal stock. When I put them to use on the heat treated 154CM blades I use for testing, the files were really slow. The 50 grit diamonds were faster by orders of magnitude.
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Diamond plates, paste, or other???
 
Probably these... the 50/80 grit WE stones...
we5080.gif


Ultra Coarse Stones

cbw
 
Well thanks everyone...that is good to know about the file question. I use a file on my machetes and have for 30 years but never on a knife.

I ask because I am fixing to purchase a pair of Iisakki puukkos that Ragnar indicates may (or may not) come with a secondary bevel and I'll be undoing that if I must and creating a true scandi on those. I have X-Course diamond plates so I will stick with that. I am getting better. One of the keys with the diamond plates is knowing how much pressure...and knowing that more is not better or even faster. That whole "let the diamonds do the work business" is not only good advice but actually works much better.

Thanks.
 
I bought a $40.00 1X36 belt sander from Harbor Freight. Got #320 grit belts from Pop's knife supply and use it to sharpen my knives. As long as you use light pressure it will work really well for blades that need some major re-profiling of the edge.
This is how most custm knife makers final sharpen their knives and virtually all factory knives are sharpened this way after final heat treat.
JUST KEEP THE STEEL COOL by using a fresh belt because a worn belt will cause too much friction and will not cut. You can also get a leather belt and put some polishing paste on it to finish it and get a super sharp edge.
 
eccvets said:
you realize it takes about 2-5 mins on a paper wheel to get a mirror shaving sharp edge right? I dont think the zombies are gonna wait 30 mins for you to sharpen up your machette :)
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Those wheels ARE fast, but the edges typically don't look very pretty and the learning curve is so steep it has an overhang.
 
Noctis3880 said:
I like power tools for major metal removal.
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I was playing with a cheap kitchen knife and my belt sander was taking too long. I got impatient and switched to my DMT Aligner and with that I set a new bevel in no time at all. Sure it roughed up the edge horribly, but I just didn't care much about that knife - I just wanted it sharp so it would be useful in the kitchen. Go the XX Course diamond hone!

I think that the knife in question is rather hard at the edge, it has kept a sharp edge for years, but it had a lot of chips until I ground off the sharp edge completely and then sharpened a new edge on to it.
 
eccvets said:
you realize it takes about 2-5 mins on a paper wheel to get a mirror shaving sharp edge right? I dont think the zombies are gonna wait 30 mins for you to sharpen up your machette :)
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Haven't you learned anything from The Walking Dead? The noise from the wheels will draw more than a mere machete can handle. Also, the paper wheels won't remove damage from rock contact and lower the bevel angle to 10 deg/side in that amount of time. Besides, shipping time for the wheels is much longer than 30 minutes. The file was already on the roof.
 
me2 said:
Did you have the power turned on for the belt sander?
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Well, at the time I only had 3 grades of belts and the belt sander is only little. But it really is hard for a sanding belt to beat the abrasiveness of XXC diamonds - you'd be amazed at how quickly I can grind off some steel. Normally it takes MUCH more than 10x as long to clean up the edge and make it look good with the finer stones than what it took to grind the edge with the XXC stone.

Now I have a nice range of grits for my belt sander - it is still using only 1/2" x 12" belts though.
 
If an edge is badly damaged, I will start with a fresh 80 grit belt on a Harbor Freight belt sander if I'm not at home. Then I switch to 120 grit belt prior to removing the burr on a slotted paper wheel. It does not take much time at all. There is no way I personally could hand sharpen anything faster than what I can do with a belt sander. My 2"x72" belt sander is what I would use at home unless the blade has a very substantial recurve to it. Then I would still use the 1"x30" belt sander.

I have no trouble with believing Gadgetaholic's method and I'm glad it works for him. His experience does not match my experience at this time. Not that there's anything wrong with that. That is why there are so many ways to sharpen a knife, ax or other tool.
 
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Gadgetaholic said:
Well, at the time I only had 3 grades of belts and the belt sander is only little. But it really is hard for a sanding belt to beat the abrasiveness of XXC diamonds - you'd be amazed at how quickly I can grind off some steel. Normally it takes MUCH more than 10x as long to clean up the edge and make it look good with the finer stones than what it took to grind the edge with the XXC stone.

Now I have a nice range of grits for my belt sander - it is still using only 1/2" x 12" belts though.
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I personally find that the belt sander eats up the blade WAY too fast with the lower grits. I had rounded off the tip of my ZT 0551 and tried to regrind a tip with a 60 grit belt and got a somewhat odd appearance a little like a tanto because I didn't curve the blade enough when grinding for all of 10 seconds per side.

And so I would actually keep in mind to use my DMT XC next time simply because it would be a slower and more forgiving process. Even my gritted paper wheel wouldn't eat up the blade so fast.

The speed of the belts over diamonds becomes even more apparent with the finer grits as you find your previous scratches quickly covered over to form a mirror finish very fast:thumbup:.
 
Noctis3880 said:
The speed of the belts over diamonds becomes even more apparent with the finer grits as you find your previous scratches quickly covered over to form a mirror finish very fast:thumbup:.
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I also find that at finer grits even my little 1/2" x 12" belt sander can smooth the bevel and give me a mirror finish MUCH faster than my DMT diamond stones.

I'll have to try some more major regrinding at some point now that I have a whole bunch of Micromesh MX belts to play with. I've got about 10 different grits from Micromesh to try as well as the 3 different grits that came with the tool.

Looking at the Micromesh Site I can see several new grits now available in the MX series, including 3 coarser belts than the coarsest one I have now.
 
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