VERY new Smith, First Knife.

DarthTaco123

DarthTaco123

Joined
Mar 28, 2013
Messages
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Hey guys! Well, I figure since I'm a knife maker, although not great, good, and probably won't even settle for amateur, I figured why not post here. This lovely (ugly) creature is my first knife, the ever infamous Railroad Spike Knife. I forged it, ground off the outer coating, but only to find out I need to realign the blade. It isn't severe but it needs to be done. Anyways enough complaining, I've heard different things from different people, I know railroad spike knives will never be great or even good knives for field use but is there any recommended quenchant? Also, will I need to regrind the knife if I stick it back in the fire to straighten it out? Also, as a senior in high school I need to do a career project to graduate, one of the requirements is a mentor, but there are no blacksmiths or bladesmiths in my area, and an online correspondence with a blacksmith/bladesmith of any repute would count towards it. Basically I need at least five decent length correspondences or chats telling me how I screwed up, tips etc. I know it's a lot to ask of anyone here, but I figure I would try anyways.

P.S: This is far from done, I need to polish it up still. A lot. That's after I straighten the blade.

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Do a search for "superquench",

You will need to regrind somewhat after heat treat anyway.

To add a bit of flare, a lot of guys that do spike knives twist the 'tang' and leave it as a bare steel handle.

Edited: wrong superquench recipe..
 
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someone should be here to help you out soon, but for now I would stay away from quenching in caustic soda. :eek: From what I have read canola oil is better than any "goop" quench you can concoct as far as low cost backyard HT for simple high carbon steels.
 
DarthTaco123 said:
Hey guys! Well, I figure since I'm a knife maker, although not great, good, and probably won't even settle for amateur, I figured why not post here. This lovely (ugly) creature is my first knife, the ever infamous Railroad Spike Knife. I forged it, ground off the outer coating, but only to find out I need to realign the blade. It isn't severe but it needs to be done. Anyways enough complaining, I've heard different things from different people, I know railroad spike knives will never be great or even good knives for field use but is there any recommended quenchant? Also, will I need to regrind the knife if I stick it back in the fire to straighten it out?

Also, as a senior in high school I need to do a career project to graduate, one of the requirements is a mentor, but there are no blacksmiths or bladesmiths in my area, and an online correspondence with a blacksmith/bladesmith of any repute would count towards it. Basically I need at least five decent length correspondences or chats telling me how I screwed up, tips etc. I know it's a lot to ask of anyone here, but I figure I would try anyways.
Click to expand...

How do you know ?

I bet there are several in your area.


Use your real name, Post your area and you will find out.


Also ask the question in I forge Iron Forum




The largest issue in my mind is that spikes are made of low carbon steel and unheat treatable
It's too thick to cut wet tissue paper
If you had done the background research necessary to succeed, you probably should have known about both points




This will help you if you read, learn, understand, and practice it all.


http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1125701-Knife-making-book?p=12845172#post12845172
 
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12345678910 said:
How do you know ?

I bet there are several in your area.

Post your area and you will find out.
Click to expand...

Fill out your profile information DarthTaco123, you might be surprised to find there are more makers near you than you expected. Me on the other hand, I'm from Kansas... there's no one around here ;)
 
Don't even think about using caustic soda. Caustic soda was banned as a quenchent due to the danger involved in using it. Google 'super quench'. It was developed to take the place of caustic soda.
 
Ok thanks for the tips guys! I guess my next question is a biggy: Where should I go from here? Can I still twist the handle? I intend on slimming the blade some more as well.
 
First, please DO NOT USE CAUSTIOC SODA for a quenchant.

I was a chemist back in the late 60's. The worst burn I ever got was from potassium hydroxide...AKA caustic soda. The last thing I would stick a hot blade in ( without wearing a chemical suit and full hood) is caustic soda solution. It is/was used in industry, but in huge automated tanks.....not by amateur blacksmith in their back yard.
Quenching in lye/caustic soda is just asking for trouble....maybe serious trouble. If you lucky, you may have a small ugly scar on your hand or chest, if unlucky, you will be blind or have lifetime breathing problems.


Now, as to twisting the spike.
Get it to a bright orange-yellow color. It should be about 2000-2100°F. Hold it by the butt, and pour some water from a coffee/tea pot over the blade portion. That will cool that area and make the handle do the twisting. Clamp the blade right up to the ricasso in a vise, drip a bit of water on the butt to stiffen that area, grab the butt with a big crescent wrench, and twist the spike with a smooth and continuous twist. A big crescent wrench or pipe wrench is a good tool for this, but anything that gives a good grip and has a long handle to provide leverage will work. Twist hard and keep twisting. If an area is over twisting, drizzle a little water on that spot to stop the twisting there. When it gets too stiff to twist easily, stop, re-heat and twist some more if needed.

If you plan on doing a lot of twisting, a 12" stilson/monkey/pipe wrench with an extra 12" handle welded to the top jaw makes two handled twisting much faster and smoother. The jaw can be adjusted to grab anything from a RR spike to a billet of damascus.
 
Twisting sounds easy enough, I probably won't bother quenching as this first knife was a test run to see if I could even hammer out a knife shaped object, and from the sounds the quench wouldn't do much either.
 
Couldn't you just quench in warm water with a little dawn dish soap in it? It would suck to finish your first knife and not have it hardened at all. I believe some of these rr spikes are of a low but hardenable carbon content. Maybe .6%. That seems like the number I was told. Could also just be BS.
 
I've heard so much from a LOT of people. "Oh the steel is just .2% even HC spikes!" "You're dumb guys it's .5 or .6!" I really don't know haha.
 
The HC spikes are not really true high carbon, it typically just means that they are higher carbon than the standard mild spikes. As far as warm water and dish soap, it won't make much difference. If there isn't enough carbon to properly harden, magic quenchants won't help much.
 
Langadune said:
Fill out your profile information DarthTaco123, you might be surprised to find there are more makers near you than you expected. Me on the other hand, I'm from Kansas... there's no one around here ;)
Click to expand...

Calling me a maker would be an awfully loose definition of the word, but I'm from Kansas none the less!:rolleyes:

Chris
 
I'm in the area where there aren't many haha. Anyways, I've got an offer from a man roughly 40 minutes away that sounds like it'll work out. Now I just need to get ot finishing this damned railroad spike knife. From the sounds what I have left is: Twisting the handle, straightening the blade, and quenching it for what little effect their is.
 
For a RR spike, I would quench in brine. It won't harden a lot, but it will harden some. Use 3/4# rock salt to 1 gallon warm water.
 
Brine sounds easy enough. Will that only work with low-medium carbon steels or is another thing recommended for high carbon? I believe 5160 is an oil quench, correct?
 
Each steel type has its own quenchant type. You can go across the lines a bit with skill, but usually you either give up some hardness or risk some breakage.


A very basic list from fastest to slowest would be:
Brine - fastest quench - used for very low alloy steel below 70 points carbon. It can be used to harden higher carbon simple steels to get a hamon or special hardening requirements. Failure due to breakage is medium to high risk. 1070,1060, low carbon and welding steel (1030) items needing a little extra hardness.

Water - about the same as brine, but a bit harsh. rarely used.

Fast oil - a commercial fast oil, like Parks #50, is the standard for higher carbon plain steels and when a fast quench is desired for hamon development. 1084,1095, W2, 52100

Canola oil - available at the grocery, and between medium and fast quench speed. A great quenchant for those doing back yard HT, or on a budget. As with any quenchant, use a proper volume. One gallon is a minimum, 2 or more is better. 5160,9260, 52100, O-1, S-7, etc. Not quite as good as a commercial quenchant, but much better than the poor quenchants people pull out of the garage shelf*.

Medium oil - Commercial oils, like Parks AAA or the many others in this range can be used on most any medium alloy to high alloy steel. 5160,9260, 52100, O-1, S-7, etc. Even A-2 can be quenched in this type oil with an interrupted quench.

Air - used on high alloy steels and stainless steel ( which is very high alloy)




*ATF, goop recipes, old motor oil, synthetic motor oil, hydraulic fluid - Forget about these. They are not for quenching knife blades...bad for the blade, and even worse for you.

 
Yeah I kind of figured each steel had it's own quenchant but that was just from my reading around the forums. Anyways, I straightened out the blade on the knife, but the handle is too thin for a twist, and where I didn't leave the head of the spike as it was it probably wouldn't look that good. I'll most likely paracord wrap it, throw it on my shelf and call it my first knife shaped object. The next knife I do I want to do a twist, and actually make a knife. I also have some scrapped railroad tie plates which from what I've read are a higher carbon steel. Time to cut those up and make knife shaped objects from those!
 
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Listen to me very carefully. If you want to do this, and do it right, stop messing around with rr spikes, tie plates, pieces from an old hot water heater your great uncle Jeff gave you, etc. Go to njsteelbaron.com, order about $30 worth of 1084 steel.

Do you want to learn to make knives, or do you want to pound on steel? Because if you just want to pound on steel and have fun, go for it. If you actually want to make knives, start by eliminating a couple variables. One is getting a teacher/mentor and you've already done that. The second is using a known steel type that hardens in a repeatable manner. 1084 is a eutectoid steel and is easy to work with and will actually make a very nice knife if you do your end of the work.

Making stuff from found steel is cool, but if you want to make knives, start with a known steel. If you want to play with rr spikes, learn to make one piece crosses. Those are really neat.

Don't give up. There are so many people on this forum who have helped me succeed and continue to help me. People here are great. Read, read, read, ask questions about what you don't understand and then read some more. Keep at it.
 
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