VG-10 or ZDP-189 steel?

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I am looking at some Spyderco folders and I wondered if it would be worth paying a bit more for one with ZDP-189 steel instead of VG-10. The knife is a Spyderco Endura 4 and I can't afford to buy both :(

This will be my first high quality folder and I want to buy one that I will be really happy with. I like the idea of a sharp knife that can do some cutting and still be really sharp. This would be used for general duties and for camping activities.

I am guessing that either would be excellent and I wouldn't regret whichever I get, but if the ZDP-189 is worth the extra cost than I'll squeeze that into my budget and get it. What are the advantages and disadvantages either way?
 
You'll certainly get some controversy about this. My experience with ZDP is that it is brittle. My experience includes snapping off two blade tips and not by prying. I have one kitchen knife with a broken tip left and a couple in my Spyderco collection that aren't used. VG-10 is one of the best cutlery stainless steels available. It is a great compromise between hardness and toughness. VG-10, in fact, is the steel that finally got me away from buying carbon steel. I recommend VG-10 as a steel that is not only less expensive but better as a knife blade material.
 
I have Spyderco Delica D4's in both VG-10 and ZDP-189. I carry the D4 IWB, and I found that the ZDP is less resistant to rust. It got a spot of rust pretty quickly. The VG-10 has never shown any rust, and it is the one I carry all the time, now. The blade gets wet with sweat. I just wipe it off, and it's good.

I find VG-10 is easy to keep sharp. I just touch it up on the crock sticks every week. It keeps a fine edge and cuts beautifully.

So, I'm very happy with the VG-10 and would recommend it over the ZDP-189.
 
I find VG10 to be superior to ZDP in a number of ways. Any theoretical advantage ZDP has is more than offset, IMO, by several practical disadvantages.

I have not been impressed by ZDP.
 
Lessee...ZDP-189 is harder to sharpen...there have been quite a few reports (including some recent reports on the Spyderco Mule series) on a tendency to chip, crack, etc. I have several ZDP knives but I'm gravitating away from them. Spyderco may be planning some D4/E4 knives in ZDP with a full flat grind. Not sure how well those will hold up. I would expect the current saber grind to be much more robust.
 
Get the VG10. If you ever plan to reprofile the blade it is way easier with VG10.
 
ZDP in a thinner blade is good but with the thick blade of the endura it can make it a pain to sharpen. ZDP is also a pain to sharpen if you don't have diamond stones, it's high Rc and extreme levels of wear resistance make even diamond stones slow. The performance of ZDP is very good and with the extra thickness of the endura it does not seem to be brittle. It does seem to microchip rather than dent or deform but it takes a lot of abuse to do so. If you are not skilled at sharpening I would not suggest this steel.

VG-10 is a very good stainless, not as much edge retention as ZDP but about on the level of S30V. Its very easy to sharpen and gets scary sharp, if you have spyderco's UF ceramic you will find this out.

For me the ZDP is worth it because I have a bunch of diamond hones and lot of practice sharpening ;) and if the sharpening part does not worry you then I would say go for it, it does hold a edge for a really long time. If the VG-10 is starting to sound better then go that route, you win either way.
 
I'll pick VG10, it gets really sharp, it's easy to resharpen and is damn corrosion resistant as well. oh, and a lot cheaper.
 
ZDP-189 definitely holds an edge for a long time, but...
As mentioned it isn't too durable, and it rusts more than your average stainless.

VG-10 has a good track record for being both reasonably durable and stainless.

So if the knife will be well taken care of (kept dry, not used for any prying whatsoever) then ZDP-189 should be fine, otherwise VG-10 might be a bit better.
 
Get the Endura 4 with wave in VG-10. That's a hard combo to beat. I don't really like ZDP because it takes a while to get sharp. In my experience, you WILL need to reprofile the edge of the Endura to make it a better slicer. It's way harder to do in ZDP compared to VG-10.
 
I very much like ZDP-189, but not in Spyderco knives. I had one of the Burgundy Caly 3's that had a ZDP-189 blade, and it chipped quite easily with general cutting. I have 3 ZDP-189 CUSTOM knives, and it ROCKS.
 
Knifenut broke it down really well. I personally love ZDP 189 because it takes extremely sharp edges at very acute angles with excellent edge retention. With diamonds it is even easy to rebevel ZDP in the super thick endura, as it only took me a few minutes to go fom the factory 15-16 per side to 10 degrees per side on mine. It is WAY easier to sharpen since I had Tom Krein regrind it to a .010" full flat grind. Even with my preference for ZDP I still like VG 10 a lot. It has pretty good edge retention with adequate toughness and edge retention. It is pretty well balanced and I definately put it high on my list of good steel.

Another very good Spyderco option to look at is the Stretch 2 FRN. It is available in both VG-10 and ZDP 189 for a bit more than an Endura but offers a much better slicing full flat grind along with better ergos and a choil. It is a truely great knife and possibly the best high performance cutting tool for the money. The blade geometry is so superior to the Endura that it will definately make most all of your cutting jobs much easier than the thick saber ground Endura blade. I believe it is $80 for the VG 10 Stretch FRN and $105 or so for the ZDP version.

Mike
 
I prefer ZDP but Mainly in my Yunas. He has a much better HT that includes Double sub zero quench and double tempering.
 
I think "gunmike1" said it well. I've had a few Delica/Enduras in both steels. As the ZDP version comes with its saber grind, I don't think there's a big advantage over VG-10.

I've also noticed (On several different ZDP blades, not just the D/E) that ZDP stains easily. I haven't had a rust problem with it, but it gets a weird discoloration easily, while VG-10 has good rust & discoloration resistance. I'll add that I was doing/using the VG-10 & ZDP versions cutting the same things, so it wasn't like I took it to the lake or ocean.

If you really want a blade that'll hold its edge incredibly well (The best in a production knife, IMHO), then the FRN Stretch ZDP with full flat grind would be the way to go. If not, then I would suggest the VG-10 version.

As has been said, unless you have diamond stones, ZDP (& other high hardness steels) are going to be harder/longer to sharpen. VG-10's fairly easy to sharpen. To me, it's on par with 154CM & ATS-34.
 
First of I will start out by saying that I have a ton of respect for both blade steels i.e. VG-10 & ZDP-189. I learned a long time ago that there are definite trade offs with just about every cutlery steel. I've read every one of the post you brothers/sisters have made and I agree with most of them. However there are many considerations when comparing different blade steels.

First of all I've had a couple of VG-10 blades put out by different companies that I didn't think was as well heat treated as Spyderco does most of their blades. Second not every cutlery steel is suited for every job. For instance I would not want a fillet knife made with ZDP-189. But I'll sure take a folder made from it any day of the week. My jury is still out as to whether or not ZDP would be good for a fixed blade like VG-10 is so super with both of the Spyderco Temperance models.

I've heard complaints from several sources that ZDP has failed in some spear point blades as for tips being broken off. Albeit that could have just been a defective heat treat IMO. My original Burgundy Spyderco Caly Jr has been put through literal hell and has held up tremendously over the past 4 years and I've never experienced a performance problem other than a minor corrosion issue I had once cutting up tomatos and forgetting to wash the blade with fresh water. ZDP is not the most acid resistant steel I've ever used but I applaud it's edge holding ability.

In spite of the list of complaints I've heard here today I still list both those blade steels as premium cutlery steels.
 
Well, thanks for the replies guys. I might get myself one of those Endura 4 VG-10 knives - it seems that it would be easier for me to maintain (less corrosion or staining, less difficult to sharpen) and a bit easier on the budget.

I'll be getting a plain blade - the serrated ones don't appeal to me. I don't think I'll go with the wave, it doesn't seem like something I need or even want and I don't really like the look either. The one I'm looking at is $66 and the shipping to New Zealand is very reasonable (quite a few of the places you guys buy from don't ship internationally). I have looked at quite a few knives and some I like are more than twice the price of the Endura4 - it seems like quite a bargain.

I might see if I can stretch my budget at some point to add a ZT0200 - that looks like a very nice knife, I like the look of the blade on it especially. For now a good folder and a good fixed blade should give me most of the utility I want for camping and whatever else I need/want a knife for.
 
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I prefer ZDP if layered... like on the Caly3.
But wouldn't want a solid blade of ZDP unless the heat treat was brought down...then why the point when you could get the same hardness with a less expensive steel.
 
I sharpen on an Edge-Pro, so I am not concerned about ease of sharpening. They're all easy to sharpen! :p

VG-10 is a truly superb steel, and it won't disappoint you. OTOH, IMHO, ZDP 189 is an order of magnitude better than VG10 in virtually every respect.:thumbup:
 
While I don't have experience with Spyderco ZDP-189, I have several VG-10 knives and 3 ZDP-189. With thin edges ZDP is vastly superior to VG-10 even when VG-10 is hardened to its MAx, 62HRC(arguably overhardened)...
For light cutters and kitchen knives ZDP beats VG-10 in edge holding and ability to sustain thin edges.
 
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