VG-10 versus CPM-S30V

G

GhOsT1321

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May 5, 2009
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How does the edge holding compare between these two steels?
How does the rust resistance compare?
How does the difficulty of sharpening compare?
Which one takes a finer edge?
Does CPM-S30V chip easily?
 
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From what I've heard, but I could remember incorrectly:
CPMS30V win
CPMS30V more or less harder to sharpen, not a problem with my set up though
Depends on setup, but I bet you could sharpen VG-10 easier, if both steels were dull
VG-10 will probably take the finer edge.
From what I've heard, it depends on the manufacturer's heat treat. Kershaw/ZT S30V have held up amazingly for me.

Disclaimer: I am not a metallurgist. This is just from what I remember, take it with a hunk of salt.
 
enderwiggin said:
VG-10 is a very good using steel, but CPM-S30V is in another class altogether.
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I haven't found S30V to be all that superior to VG-10. I'd give it a slight nod for edge retention with a nod to VG-10 for taking a finer edge and being slightly easier to sharpen. From what I read, VG-10 should have better corrosion resistance.
 
Regarding edge retention S30V (on my Kershaws and Spydercos) and VG-10 (on my Fällknivens and Al Mars) they are pretty much comparable although for heavier use, VG-10 tend to get blunt a bit more. Both steels are VERY easy to sharpen and haven't had any issues with chipping. VG-10 takes a finer edge when using the Spyderco Sharpmaker, but also that difference is marginal. In that perspective, I found 3-G steel blades even sharper, but can't say much about edge retentions as all of my Fällkniven 3-G knives are yet to be used.
 
Chipping depends so much on who did the heat treat and how he did it to what goal and the actually edge geometry. But in general S30V doesn't have the greatest of impact toughness but it can be a hard use steel. Just don't expect it to take hard impact abuse well...beat it with a hardened steel object and it will chip from impact. It has happened to me.

Bos makes a killer HT on S30V and so does Strider. I don't have experience of other maker's S30V.
 
PatriotDan said:
Bos makes a killer HT on S30V and so does Strider. I don't have experience of other maker's S30V.
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Dan, if you haven't tried S30V as treated by Spyderco, you're missing out. In my opinion and experience, their treatment of S30V is on par with Bos', Buck's (which is also Bos'), and BladeTech's. Kershaw's treatment of S30V is supposed to be excellent as well, though I don't own any Kershaws in S30V at present. I doubt you'll be disappointed. Now CRK's and Benchmade's treatment of S30V, from what I've read, has been 'hit or miss,' but I have not personally experienced any problems with their S30V.

I still favor VG-10 over S30V, as the marginal increase in wear resistance is not really needed for my daily cutting needs.

Regards,
3G
 
S30V is a designed for cutlery steel - and American made. VG-10 is Japaneese - and the knife must be made there, from what I understand. My only VG-10 knife is a Kershaw 1993-2 'Gent's Folder', made in Seki, Japan. I have a number of Bucks, Spyderco's, and Benchmades in S30V. They have all cut equally well - and nearly identical in sharpness -as delivered' - with the 'edge', so to speak, going to the Bucks. The Spyderco S30V Native, bought for <$40 at Wally World over two years ago, has been a great EDC - reduced many a cardboard box. It did finally get a bit warm last year - and met my Spyderco Sharpmaker. Don't expect it to get back to a hair popper quickly, like a Vic SAK. Great utility blade - great edge longevity. Buck's 420HC makes a sharper edge - and faster. Still, if one blade metal is my favorite - it's S30V. The new this year Buck 347 Vantage Pro has a world class S30V blade - and has a MSRP of $75! In fairness, my Kershaw 1993-2 'Gent's Folder' is my only VG-10 blade - and it gets little use - it is a 'dress-up' knife.

Stainz
 
I've put both my spyderco D'Allara (vg10, saber grind) and large manix (s30v) through some heavy work. I was much happier with the edge retention of the Manix than the D'Allara. Keep in mind the grinds are different and my judgement has zero scientific content - i.e. I've used both to break down old furniture and to do yard work (pruning, cutting ties, breaking down boxes) and I found the s30v to kept working a lot longer. I haven't noted any difference in "peak" sharpness between the two although the s30v takes longer to get there.
 
blackfeetmageet said:
I have never used either, but hear better things from cpm-s30v
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It's a little entertaining because a year ago you would read exactly the opposite on this board. The truth is both steels are designed for cutlery use and both do an outstanding job. There is very little to choose between them. In my experience S30V is slightly less corrosion resistant and slightly tougher - VERY slightly. Perhaps the differences could be described as meaningless.
 
I don't know -- I used both to hack apart a couple of old couches. The D'Allara lost its edge fairly quickly on the stuffing material but the manix kept cutting and cutting -- maybe its the ffg vs saber.
 
GhOsT1321 said:
How does the edge holding compare between these two steels?
How does the rust resistance compare?
How does the difficulty of sharpening compare?
Which one takes a finer edge?
Does CPM-S30V chip easily?
Click to expand...

In terms of wear resistance, S30V is better.
Rust resistance, I still think S30V is better, but I haven't really compared them.
VG-10 takes a finer edge.
S30V does not chip easily when properly heat treated. There will always be lemons, but they are few and far between.

VG-10 takes a better edge and is easier to sharpen. Past that S30V has everything else going for it. USA made, better wear resistance, and more rust resistant.
 
I've got several S30V knives including a Spydero Military, Kershaw Blur and a Benchmade Mini-Rukus. A Spyderco Endura is my only VG-10.

After some moderate use I'm having a hell of a time getting a decent edge back on the Endura with my Sharpmaker however, my Kersaw Blur with S30V has seen about the same amount of use is still shaving sharp with only a few light strokes on the fine rods.

At this point I'm more inclined away from another purchase in VG-10 than towards one.
 
I've got knives in vg 10 and s30v. In my experience S30V is able to keep sharp quite a bit longer. I haven't been all that impressed with vg 10 honestly.
 
PatriotDan said:
Bos makes a killer HT on S30V and so does Strider. I don't have experience of other maker's S30V.
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I heard that Bos heat treats the S30V in the Vantage Pro ($40 knife) to HRC 61, whereas S30V is usually hardened to 58. I'm not surprised that VG-10 at 60 would equal or beat the S30V in edge retention and take a finer edge (under most sharpening systems). However, S30V at 61 should beat the VG-10 in edge holding and take just as fine an edge. I have yet to test this but will do so soon, as I have some VG-10 knives from 59 all the way to 62.
 
Personally I think these steels are in completely different classes. S30V is extremely wear resistant, to the point that most people that have a knife with this steel will never push it hard enough to see what it really does. When I want to see how far steel can go I use manila rope, drywall, cardboard, and old carpet. The difference I see is in the type of dull edge that these steels take on, VG-10 does good on cardboard and rope but when you move on to the tougher stuff it quickly gets dull. The edge tends to roll or fold and have a few small chips, still usable like this but its pretty much out of the fight. S30V is much different just like all other CPM steels I have tried, the edge does not roll or fold it has a even burr and some small micro chipping. The edge no longer feels sharp enough to cut at this point but it still will, this equal sided burr that seems to form acts more like a chainsaw than a single sided burr as we all know.

Both are good steels but it is really unfair to compare "normal steels" to CPM steels, they just don't perform in the same ways. If you need a knife that will cut till the cows come home get a CPM steel, if not, anything else will do.
 
S30V's behavior at RC 58 is way different from S30V at RC61. That's where it really comes into it's own and pulls ahead of the VG10/154cm/CPM154 class steels. A VG10 or 154 cm at RC60-61 might perform better than a S30V blade at RC57-58.

At RC61, no comparison IMO. It's a good steel, but much better at RC59 and higher. VG10 isn't as much different from 58-59 to 61. It's finer grained, and an excellent steel but you just can't beat the higher carbon and Vanadium in S30V for pure wear resistance.

At lower RC's, you've heard the saying that it ( S30V) stays real sharp for a little while, and sort of sharp for a long time. I find it easier to sharpen at higher RC's as it burrs less IMO.
 
Thanks Mastiff, I couldn't have said it better! I really like my VG-10 knives alot, but they aren't the last word either. I'll take my VG-10 kitchen knives over all bar none, but for field use you can't beat a well treated S30V IMO. Decide whatcha gonna do with the blade, then choose the steel.
 
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