VG-10 versus CPM-S30V

It is interesting to see the way opinions ebb and flow on these forums. Not long ago S30V was junk and VG-10 was superior. My own opinion is that they are nearly identical in overall performance. S30V is slightly better in corrosion resistance.
 
I'd love to see someone get their Buck Vantage Pro tested to see the actual hardness. If they really are coming at 61 RC I might pick one up to try it.

Mike
 
Knife Outlet said:
It is interesting to see the way opinions ebb and flow on these forums. Not long ago S30V was junk and VG-10 was superior. My own opinion is that they are nearly identical in overall performance. S30V is slightly better in corrosion resistance.
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When was S30V junk? :confused:
 
He's using a figure of speech to demonstrate the illiterate thinking of little minds, get over it! S30V has always been great steel.....everyone knows it....and Knife Outlet does too.
 
Josh K said:
When was S30V junk? :confused:
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When S30V first came out, there were many reports of brittle edges that would chip during normal EDC tasks. Obviously a heat treat issue, so I stayed away from this steel until now.

I'm sure all the heat treat issues are long gone now and it's safe to buy these knives w/o worrying that the tip is gonna break off and fly into your eye while cutting a cardboard box.
 
I’m not sure why I’m bothering with this expletive….but here goes! I may be the dumbass in this, but VG10 and S30V rank in the same arena. One steel may take it on the chin at a certain job, and then the other steel takes a hit on another job. The problem lies with threads which are started by someone who has had a bad experience with a particular steel, and those who don’t really know jump on the bandwagon and agree that it is junk this week. Next week another thread is posted with a bad experience with another steel, and again, those who don’t really know jump the same train and talk it down. Knife Outlet is merely pointing out the preponderance of ignorance among those who have not done their homework, and he reads it laughing to himself at how they play games with what they so willingly call knowledge. Some of it is truly knowledge, some of it is just “not knowing”, but most is BS spread by those who are sitting by their computer dropping replies on threads without regard for the smears it makes on the truth, and Knife Outlet is not one of the BS’ers. Bear in mind we are dealing with all the knife nuts in the world here, some with very large collections and very much knowledge about how each and every one of their pieces performs. Others are makers, sellers, and folks who truly know the significance of chemical elements and how they effect steel used in the blade industry. Now, put it to bed by saying to yourself, S30V is great steel by anyone’s measure….put it to the right uses and you won’t go wrong!!! Pay attention to "cotdt", he posted just before me, he among others know the truth.
 
I'm very new to knives and knife collecting, but it seems to me that the knife manufacturers have also played a role in these 'lack of knowledge' discussions. The amount of technical info they put out on a knife is minimal - especially important info like heat treatment and hardness. I got more info with my cell phone than I got with my Sage II. Hard to compare various user experiences if the S30V in my knife from manufacturer A is different than the S30V in your knife from manufacturer B. :(
 
DelrinFred said:
I'm very new to knives and knife collecting, but it seems to me that the knife manufacturers have also played a role in these 'lack of knowledge' discussions. The amount of technical info they put out on a knife is minimal - especially important info like heat treatment and hardness. I got more info with my cell phone than I got with my Sage II. Hard to compare various user experiences if the S30V in my knife from manufacturer A is different than the S30V in your knife from manufacturer B. :(
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So true! It would be nice to see the data on the RC hardness, CATRA results, and heat treat method of any knife model. Look at the speaker manufacturers: they usually provide a frequency response measurement, impedance, and power handling, among other useful data.

The problem that causes a LOT of brittle knives is the heat treat, not the inherent toughness of the steel. There is often a lot of retained austenite that over time transforms into untempered martensite, leaving you with a very brittle knife. Knowing how the blade is heat treated would be very useful.
 
I wasn't making any judgements about the steels other than my comment that S30V is slightly more corrosion resistant. It is. VG-10 develops a gray patina over time. Both are outstanding knife blade steels. In fact they were designed for that purpose. I wasn't making any judgements about the people in the forum either. What I find in these and other forums is a tendency for people without personal experience to parrot the experiences of others and then for more people to parrot the person without personal experience. Whether the belief has merit or not depends to a large extent on who the people decide to parrot. It works something like rumors work.

I promise you, I used to read negative comments galore about S30V on this forum all the time. Personally, I didn't agree with them and, if I disagreed in writing, people would write me off as unknowledgable. I think probably somebody got a knife with bad heat treatment and it grew and grew and grew to become an overall negative for S30V. Most likely it had nothing to do with S30V at all but with the knife manufacturer. It is just the way forums sometimes work.

I was at the Shot Show at which they announced S30V. One of the manufacturer's reps told me the steel was developed to compete against VG-10 as a steel optimized for cutlery use. I think they were successful at it. It is very comparable in terms of overall performance. I own and use many knives made of both steels and I wouldn't be able to tell you which is which just from using them.
 
Josh K said:
When was S30V junk? :confused:
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Every time I've tried it. I think it's junk. I've had S30V from several different manufacturers, and none of them kept a good edge - they were on par with AUS 8A - maybe. I'm not trashing AUS 8A, but for the price, S30V should blow it away. I'm also able to easily get a great edge with AUS 8A, and never could with S30V. I even went so far as to get one re-hardened, it didn't help much.

I love VG 10, I'll choose it any day over S30V. Takes a great edge and keeps it an acceptable length of time.

So no, opinions don't change, I just get tired of repeating myself. Lots of other people have had good luck with it. I have had such bad luck, if all a knife comes in is in S30V, I'll pass on the knife. YMMV.
 
Another S30V issue we used to see a lot more of "in the past" was the reports of edge burning by mfg.s with production grade blades. I never really heard many issues concerning heat treat only what seemed to be edge burn issues. The result was a lot more edge chipping unless the ELU took the time to sharpen the blade and remove the burnt steel on the edge. If the knife was sharpened, chances were good there would be no further chipping if the blade were used as intended. I haven't heard of any reports of this type of problem with S30V for quite some time so I would venture a guess that most mfg.s have revised their mechanized sharpening to reduce the risk of creating the edge burn. The result, I believe, is a much better perception by the knife using public in general, about the performance of S30V rather than it's failures or problems.
 
sodak said:
Every time I've tried it. I think it's junk. I've had S30V from several different manufacturers, and none of them kept a good edge - they were on par with AUS 8A - maybe. I'm not trashing AUS 8A, but for the price, S30V should blow it away. I'm also able to easily get a great edge with AUS 8A, and never could with S30V. I even went so far as to get one re-hardened, it didn't help much.

I love VG 10, I'll choose it any day over S30V. Takes a great edge and keeps it an acceptable length of time.

So no, opinions don't change, I just get tired of repeating myself. Lots of other people have had good luck with it. I have had such bad luck, if all a knife comes in is in S30V, I'll pass on the knife. YMMV.
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That re-hardened blade you had certainly couldn't come close to my Manix, or any of my VG-10 knives for that matter, and we both know that was a very expensive knife by a guy who a lot of people claim does S30V best because of his role in helping develop it. All I can say is that Spyderco's S30V has been good these days, and a Benchmade Rukus I gave my buddy was pretty crisp. Ovverall I still prefer VG-10, D2, CPM D2, and especially CPM M4 over S30V, but it doesn't scare me off like it used to as I think the manufacturers have got their heat treats pretty solid on it now. When you've had such consistently bad performance from S30V like you have I don't blame you for avoiding it like the plague. I avoid AUS-8 due to my only AUS-8 knives being burr mongering POS's, when in reality I know I would love the sharpness of good AUS-8. I just can't get past my personal experience to buy AUS-8 though.

Mike
 
gunmike1 said:
That re-hardened blade you had certainly couldn't come close to my Manix, or any of my VG-10 knives for that matter, and we both know that was a very expensive knife by a guy who a lot of people claim does S30V best because of his role in helping develop it. All I can say is that Spyderco's S30V has been good these days, and a Benchmade Rukus I gave my buddy was pretty crisp. Ovverall I still prefer VG-10, D2, CPM D2, and especially CPM M4 over S30V, but it doesn't scare me off like it used to as I think the manufacturers have got their heat treats pretty solid on it now. When you've had such consistently bad performance from S30V like you have I don't blame you for avoiding it like the plague. I avoid AUS-8 due to my only AUS-8 knives being burr mongering POS's, when in reality I know I would love the sharpness of good AUS-8. I just can't get past my personal experience to buy AUS-8 though.

Mike
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I hear you there Mike. I think I've gotten burned enough times that I won't trust the steel anymore. Interestingly enough, I've never seen the chipping problem that so many others reported. My knives simply didn't take a good edge, and wouldn't keep it at all. There's too many other good and great steels out there to use to resign yourself to one you don't like.

Ok, I'll quit raining on everyone's parade. I try not to comment in threads like this anymore, simply because I don't want to turn it into an argument with no resolution. If I ever try an S30V knife that keeps an edge, I'll be the first to post about it here. If it works for you all, go for it.

Now I gotta go back to bashing Mora's.... ;) :D
 
I prefer VG10 on my blades (Fallkniven S1, Spyderco folders) since it is easy to touch up and takes a really fine edge easily. The S30V (Kershaw ZT0400) does tend to last longer between sharpenings in my personal experience though.
 
Kaizen1 said:
I haven't found S30V to be all that superior to VG-10. I'd give it a slight nod for edge retention with a nod to VG-10 for taking a finer edge and being slightly easier to sharpen. From what I read, VG-10 should have better corrosion resistance.
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I know, really old thread. Found it through Google. I did some corrosion resistance tests with all my stainless steels and S30V won over them all. In fact, where VG10 had heavier rust marks and pitting, S30V had none. I'll make a new thread for my test results of my other steels soon.


Though I have found VG10 to be way sharper than S30V.
 
I am quite disappointed by my Spyderco Military's S30V.
I can get it razor sharp easily just with the sharpmaker.
But it does not hold an edge well. It got completely dull by just cutting off a jeans leg.
Similar story with my Kumo's VG-10.

I stick to carbon steel whenever I can.
 
With both steels as full hardness, s30v is way above vg-10. It all comes down to alloy content and heat treat, just look at the steel's composition. S30v will be much more difficult to grind then vg-10.
 
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