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VG-10 vs. S30V
- Thread starter Will
- Start date
Personally, I prefer VG-10. It is probably my favorite stainless steel. S30V may have the edge in toughness, but the VG-10 just seems to cut better. The knives I have made of VG-10 just seem to cut more aggressively than any of my other knives. This is just my opinion of course. They are both great steels.
bandaidman
Basic Member
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- Feb 11, 2001
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i have owned knives made of both
s-30v takes a nice edge and keeps it along time, it is also tougher...although i have not tested that much since all my s 30v knives are smaller folders . stain resistance is good but not great
vg-10 is a great steel ... much cheaper and more stain resistant. it takes a nice toothy edge and is easier for me to sharpen although it does not last as long as s 30v.
for raw performance s 30v is better, but for value i would say vg-10 has the advantage
s-30v takes a nice edge and keeps it along time, it is also tougher...although i have not tested that much since all my s 30v knives are smaller folders . stain resistance is good but not great
vg-10 is a great steel ... much cheaper and more stain resistant. it takes a nice toothy edge and is easier for me to sharpen although it does not last as long as s 30v.
for raw performance s 30v is better, but for value i would say vg-10 has the advantage
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They're my 2 favorite blade steels.
I've heard that they're both really good, in a nutshell S30V will hold edge better, the VG-10 sharpens easier. I've also heard (not experienced) that vg-10 does indeed cut better. Coincidentaly, all my knives are S30V except one, my Kabar D2 Extreme. S30V is a little harder and abrasion resistant, not sure about corrsion though, their both stainless and probably very good. S30V is almost always more $$$.
I agree with djolney. I now have several knives in each steel. I have trouble getting a fine edge on S30V, just push cutting or cleanly slicing newspaper is very difficult. With VG10, I can easily get as fine an edge as I need, all the way to shaving (and beyond). The VG10 blades hold their edge MUCH longer than S30V.
I'm using an Edgepro to compare results (at identical blade angles), and have been very unimpressed with S30V this far. It is $$$, and I'm done buying it. I love VG10.
I'm using an Edgepro to compare results (at identical blade angles), and have been very unimpressed with S30V this far. It is $$$, and I'm done buying it. I love VG10.
Everyone here is comparing apples and oranges. To compare the two, you would need blades with identical grind and edge geometry, and with optimal heat treat and the same degree of edge polish. What you are actually comparing may be very different knives which do not reflect what the steel is capable of doing. If all variables were controlled, I'd bet that most people would not be able to tell the difference between them as far as how well they cut. Edge holding may be a different thing, depending on what exactly you are cutting.
A critical factor is heat treat. A bad heat treat on either will give bad results. The plain fact is that some companies (or makers) do a better job with the heat treat.
Personally I have not had problems getting a very nice edge on S30V. I have had a lot more trouble with D2. But both observations are due to the mix of knives I have, not due to the inherent capabilities of the steels.
A critical factor is heat treat. A bad heat treat on either will give bad results. The plain fact is that some companies (or makers) do a better job with the heat treat.
Personally I have not had problems getting a very nice edge on S30V. I have had a lot more trouble with D2. But both observations are due to the mix of knives I have, not due to the inherent capabilities of the steels.
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In my experience, S30V is tougher, and holds an edge longer than VG-10, because it doesn't roll or chip as easily. All my knives in both materials are about the same hardness. The three VG-10 blades I've used were all Spydercos, while I've used a total of about ten in S30V from Spyderco, Camillus, Benchmade, Darrel Ralph, and four or five makers who use Paul Bos.
I love VG-10. It's very stain resistant, easier to sharpen, and has a great "feel" to me. S30V always takes more work for me to get the edge just right.
Which one cuts better? The one with the better edge geometry, regardless of steel. One steel doesn't outcut another.
btw, I have been unhappy with the edge durability on some of my production knives in S30V and one of the customs until they were reprofiled, or at least touched up multiple times. I don't know why, but their edges seemed to roll and/or microserrate very easily, and I had problems removing the burr, and getting the edge crisp on them.
S30V is the better steel, though.
I love VG-10. It's very stain resistant, easier to sharpen, and has a great "feel" to me. S30V always takes more work for me to get the edge just right.
Which one cuts better? The one with the better edge geometry, regardless of steel. One steel doesn't outcut another.
btw, I have been unhappy with the edge durability on some of my production knives in S30V and one of the customs until they were reprofiled, or at least touched up multiple times. I don't know why, but their edges seemed to roll and/or microserrate very easily, and I had problems removing the burr, and getting the edge crisp on them.
S30V is the better steel, though.
- Joined
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CATRA testing shows that S30V is more resistant to wear, which is no surprise considering its higher carbide content (especially vanadium). All else being equal, steels with more carbides are generally harder to sharpen. Factors such as heat treat, hardness, edge geometry & polish, and steel toughness will also influence perceived "edgeholding," often to the point that comparing the edge retention for knives of different steels becomes meaningless.
Susceptibility to corrosion is heavily dependent on surface finish and in real world use, environmental factors such as temperature, pH, and salinity must also be considered. Personally, I think that the corrosion resistances of VG-10 and S30V are close enough that differences in surface finish can outweigh the differences in steel's inherent corrosion resistance.
Susceptibility to corrosion is heavily dependent on surface finish and in real world use, environmental factors such as temperature, pH, and salinity must also be considered. Personally, I think that the corrosion resistances of VG-10 and S30V are close enough that differences in surface finish can outweigh the differences in steel's inherent corrosion resistance.
Owen, you hit the nail on the head when you said that the one with better edge geometry cut better. Of course, the optimal edge geometry depends on the intended use.
I have some knives with steel that is most closely a 440B composition. Many users on this forum would thumb their nose at it based on the composition alone. But based on personal experience it exceeds all expectations, and it outperforms the ATS-34 of a well known and highly respected (on this forum) manufacturer. Why? Excellent heat treat and an optimal edge angle. The ATS-34 had neither, even though many on this forum have given very positive reviews regarding its performance (there is a marketing term to describe that opinion, I believe it is Reduction of Dissonance).
The manufacturer (i.e. heat treat) and edge angle are more important than the steel, as long as you are starting with a reasonably good steel. With VG-10 and S30V, this statement holds true. I'm sure we could give examples of knives made with either steel that were excellent performers and other examples that were mediocre performers.
I get a good edge on S30V by sharpening freehand on an EF DMT followed by a hard Arkansas. Maybe it's just the particular knives that I have that respond well to it, and the negative results mentioned above are a function of the particular knives they have.
I have some knives with steel that is most closely a 440B composition. Many users on this forum would thumb their nose at it based on the composition alone. But based on personal experience it exceeds all expectations, and it outperforms the ATS-34 of a well known and highly respected (on this forum) manufacturer. Why? Excellent heat treat and an optimal edge angle. The ATS-34 had neither, even though many on this forum have given very positive reviews regarding its performance (there is a marketing term to describe that opinion, I believe it is Reduction of Dissonance).
The manufacturer (i.e. heat treat) and edge angle are more important than the steel, as long as you are starting with a reasonably good steel. With VG-10 and S30V, this statement holds true. I'm sure we could give examples of knives made with either steel that were excellent performers and other examples that were mediocre performers.
I get a good edge on S30V by sharpening freehand on an EF DMT followed by a hard Arkansas. Maybe it's just the particular knives that I have that respond well to it, and the negative results mentioned above are a function of the particular knives they have.
I can only compare Spyderco VG-10 and Spyderco S30V. I have finished both on a #10000 stone with final stropping and found that both can take a highly polished edge. They have both passed my most difficult sharpness test (cutting thin freeSTANDING paper). To reprofile an S30V blade I found surprisingly time consuming but the edge did hold slightly longer on the S30V. But in the end edge geometry makes a much larger difference than the steel type, not to mention that you really have to thin out the edge before you will see noticable differences between these top end steels. For me its quite simple: I am a "steel snob" but if it is S30V or VG-10, its just plain good enough.
I agree, there is such little difference in performace in these steels that the blade grind, edge angle, blade finish and heat treat are more significant then the differences in raw performance.
They are both awesome steels and I really like anything in S30V, VG10, or D2.
Of them VG10 is the best PER COST, IMHO.
(I still buy SAKs, but they are a great example of how a flat grind, even on a mediocre steel can perform really well)
They are both awesome steels and I really like anything in S30V, VG10, or D2.
Of them VG10 is the best PER COST, IMHO.
(I still buy SAKs, but they are a great example of how a flat grind, even on a mediocre steel can perform really well)
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It might be a bit of a wait for you as an answer to your thread, but I am in the process of putting up a detailed field report on S30V vs. VG10.
I brought along a Spyderco Goddard in VG10 and a Spyderco Native in S30V along for 9day holiday in the tropics and did a lot of work with both of them to see how they held up. I also did a great deal of field expedient corrosion-resistance tests which was one of my main interests in this little "project."
I'll be able to provide more details in my upcoming thread which I will post here in the Blade Discussion Forum.
And the winner was ... we'll see. Jason.
I brought along a Spyderco Goddard in VG10 and a Spyderco Native in S30V along for 9day holiday in the tropics and did a lot of work with both of them to see how they held up. I also did a great deal of field expedient corrosion-resistance tests which was one of my main interests in this little "project."
I'll be able to provide more details in my upcoming thread which I will post here in the Blade Discussion Forum.
And the winner was ... we'll see. Jason.
- Joined
- Oct 1, 2003
- Messages
- 611
One of the keys with S30V is to keep the edge sharp with light touch-ups or steeling. Let it go dull and it can be a bit of a chore getting it back.
selfinflicted said:
So S30V actually requires more frequent sharpening despite it's higher Rc hardness rating, very interesting. I would agree that geometry and heat treat are more an issue than anything else. In one of my 1st threads I posted a question about S30V and got a response saying that any good manufacturer will use the proper steel and heat treat for the intended use of the blade. Manufacturer (or maker) is more important than just steel alone, if you trust the manufacturer, trust the blade (steel).