VG10 and SG2 Experiments and History

Larrin

Larrin

Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider
Joined
Jan 17, 2004
Messages
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I was able to get some VG10 and SG2 steel which I was excited about because the steels are used in many Japan-produced knives but it is tough to get here. So a lot of knife enthusiasts are curious about the properties. I did corrosion resistance and toughness experiments on both steels. And I tracked down some history on the development of each steel. I also have an experimental edge retention value for VG10 and calculated edge retention of SG2. https://knifesteelnerds.com/2019/12...akefu-stainless-steel-properties-and-history/
 
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I was curious about the abrasion testing machine too, so I found this. Overall it was a nice read!
 
Very interesting article as usual. Thanks.
How does VG10 and SG2 compare to CoS ("Cobalt Special", another Takefu steel used by Fallkniven) ?

And when will you talk in details about NioMax ? ;)
If I look correctly at the graphs, at 62RC it's substantially better in toughness than AEB-L (not a small achievement) and with much better wear resistance (113 for NioMax versus 64 for AEB-L).
 
patrickguignot said:
Very interesting article as usual. Thanks.
How does VG10 and SG2 compare to CoS ("Cobalt Special", another Takefu steel used by Fallkniven) ?
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I haven't looked in detail at Cobalt Special, but a conventional steel with more Cr, Mo, and Co than VG10 doesn't get me excited.
And when will you talk in details about NioMax ? ;)
If I look correctly at the graphs, at 62RC it's substantially better in toughness than AEB-L (not a small achievement) and with much better wear resistance (113 for NioMax versus 64 for AEB-L).
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More details of NioMax will be discussed when it's been produced at scale and is ready to sell.
 
Larrin said:
I haven't looked in detail at Cobalt Special, but a conventional steel with more Cr, Mo, and Co than VG10 doesn't get me excited.

More details of NioMax will be discussed when it's been produced at scale and is ready to sell.
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Mo' M7C3, Mo' Betta :p:D

Would love to get a piece of Cobalt Special, but the price to import a small piece keeps me away.

So many steels, so little time.:cool:

Look forward to the NioMax.
 
That go over anyone else’s head like a fighter jet?!! Lol.
that was like a professional presentation well done
 
Dallas T said:
That go over anyone else’s head like a fighter jet?!! Lol.
that was like a professional presentation well done
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I would hope that professionals can make presentations that make sense. What can I do to make it easier?
 
Nothing it’s me! Lol
Was kidding cause it was so much information that my a d d brain wouldn’t compute. Lol
 
Dallas T said:
Nothing it’s me! Lol
Was kidding cause it was so much information that my a d d brain wouldn’t compute. Lol
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I see. I can write shorter versions, if that helps. Or you can skip to the Conclusions/Summary at the end. Like this from the Conclusion:
"In terms of properties neither really stands out as being an amazing performer, though they are in line with expectations. VG10 is a decent Japan-developed alternative to 440C with some added cobalt for tempering resistance. And SG2 is in the same approximate property range as other PM stainless steels like Elmax and S35VN."
 
Thank you for taking the time to publishing this. I learn something every article. I will be honest, I had expected VG10 to score higher than it did. Very interesting though. If you ran VG10 at higher RC would that change the edge retention results much at all? I know 60 is already pretty hard. I assume it would adversely effect toughness as well.
 
CPM3V said:
Thank you for taking the time to publishing this. I learn something every article. I will be honest, I had expected VG10 to score higher than it did. Very interesting though. If you ran VG10 at higher RC would that change the edge retention results much at all? I know 60 is already pretty hard. I assume it would adversely effect toughness as well.
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Each Rc point seems to add about 5 points to the relative edge retention score. And yes it would also reduce toughness.
 
Larrin said:
I see. I can write shorter versions, if that helps. Or you can skip to the Conclusions/Summary at the end. Like this from the Conclusion:
"In terms of properties neither really stands out as being an amazing performer, though they are in line with expectations. VG10 is a decent Japan-developed alternative to 440C with some added cobalt for tempering resistance. And SG2 is in the same approximate property range as other PM stainless steels like Elmax and S35VN."
Click to expand...

That would be a good addition to your original post so people can get a concise idea of your findings without having to invest a ton of time going through the full report. The full report is still awesome for those of us with more time and an appreciation of the full, fine-grained data.

Thanks for your reporting.
 
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Twindog said:
That would be a good addition to your original post so people can get a concise idea of your findings without having to invest a ton of time going through the full report. The full report is still awesome for those of us with more time and an appreciation of the full, fine-grained data.

Thanks for your reporting.
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That quote was taken from the summary at the end.
 
Great article...I have wondered a long time about VG10...I do not like it.
I have always found it had poor edge retention. I found it easy to sharpen
and indeed easy to make scary sharp...but it just didn't last. I like S30V
much more.

Again, thank you and great write up. I especially love the microscopic
look at the grain structure pictures...epic.
 
Thanks for the article Larrin,

my first vg10 was the delica... nearly 20 years ago ; ) it held up well, but tbh the base delica geometry back then was rather thick (they didn't have full flat models back then, only the saber)

however the thickness was listed as 3/32" or 2.5mm - but they seem thicker when you use them
 
Excellent write up,not that big of a vg10 fan due to edge retention, sg2 kind of disappointed expected more edge holding,like the catra on m390 vs m4 kind of surprised...keep up the great and interesting work.
 
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