VG10 for hard use applications

Mikael W said:
Thanks Rainddog, that was very kind words!

Here's a new pic of the NL1 together with some of the others, in a glass displaycase.

d2c7.jpg



Regards
Mikael
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My oh my... some beautiful pieces there!
 
Mikael W
Cant find any reviews, it was a few years think I read about it in 2009? maybe, thought maybe im mistaken about what knife and someone else made a mine clearance knife(same term) as Fallkniven in vg-10 couldnt find anything either. So either im going batty and mistaken or just hard to find online, I mean even AMAZON standard "OMG THIS KNIFE IS AWESOME" review doesnt exist for it despite it being sold on there.
I sent a Email off to Fallkniven to ask them if they have had problems with people reporting the knives chipping in the field, Will let you know the reply.
OK laminated vg-10 is 420J2 with VG-10 core which means its very soft.. at hardest RC 420J2 can only make 52-54rc.
Its actually possible it could be suffering gouging from rocks and large pieces of sand not chips when used as a probe, I quite clearly remember chipping so this is another suggestion im wrong about the MC1 and thinking of another knife.

Ive read a review of vg-10 F1 being used to try to chisel though a steel bar and it suffering eraser sized chips in the blade, while 1095 managed it.
This is in line with when I have used 1095 at 58rc to cut high tensile fencing wire.
Here
http://www.cliffstamp.com/knives/reviews/metal_cutting.html#fallkniven

This was apparently before they were using laminated blades, so pure VG-10 blade.
Mikael W is your experience with VG-10 talking laminated or pure?
Saying a laminated blade doesnt chip and using it to apply to Vg-10 blades as a whole has a host of problems.
Ive seen a vg-10 chef knife droped on tiles and shatter into 5 peices... never seen a 1095 blade that do that.. and ive droped a few... hell Ive droped a old Gerber a400 many times as has my brother and my father over the last 28 years and that thing never shattered.. and its a highspeed tool steel that chips.
You can also find on a host of forums(already checked google search this time :) ) where people find vg-10 blades chip even cutting soft stuff in the kitchen.
 
Phoynix

Ok, You are not the only one that can't find those MC1 reviews.
I have never seen or heard of them.

Fällkniven states that the laminated VG-10 blades are HRC 59 in the VG-10 core and HRC 55 in the 420j2 outer laminate.
The review You link to, only mention that knives from Fällkniven has been used for testing.
No facts are revealed, but it is likely that the edges saw major damages if used to cut steel.
This has a lot to do with edgegeometry, as Fällkniven doesn't do knives for cutting steel or stones.

If You look closely on the pic's I've posted, You will see lamination lines.
The NL's have always been laminated.
If You read my posts again, You will see that I talk about Fällkniven products, wich is what this topic is allabout.

I have also accidentally dropped some of my Fällkniven knives on concrete floors.
They didn't shatter and they are still very good tools.
I'm sure You can find kitchen knives that chips, but what has this to do with Fällkniven?
Was it a Fällkniven kitchen knife?

The heat-treatment and geometry that goes into the Fällkniven range of VG-10 knives, has worked for me also when chopping hard with the NL1 & NL2.
This personal experience makes me confident enough, to recommend Fällkniven knives to others.
I for one, don't know of any higher quality than this, in a production knife!


Regards
Mikael
 
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He was asking about VG-10 in general with an eye on a fallk... so pointing out that vg-10 laminate and VG-10 knives are different is helpful when talking about toughness.. because in the end you really are talking about two entirely different blade materials and only the edge holding being the same across them.
 
Phoynix said:
He was asking about VG-10 in general with an eye on a fallk... so pointing out that vg-10 laminate and VG-10 knives are different is helpful when talking about toughness.. because in the end you really are talking about two entirely different blade materials and only the edge holding being the same across them.
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Ok, yes this is correct!
Fällkniven shows this differrences in graphic's on their website.
For anyone thinking of getting the A1 like Raindog is, this differrence is valid if You buy a used A1.
Some of the second hand A1's are made in solid VG-10.
The edgeholding will be the same, as You point out.

Eric, CEO of Fällkniven AB, told me of his solid VG-10 A1.
He wanted to try the laminated A1 when it was new,but had to break the old solid one before he started on the new A1.
He deliberately used it as hard as he could, trying to break it.
The last I heard of it, he still had the solid one! :D

One thing about edges.
I have noticed that Fällkniven knives are no exception regarding factory edges.
The edges doesn't perform to their full potential, until You have sharpened them a few times.
This is not always the case and my NL's have performed right out of the box! :thumbup:


Regards
Mikael
 
Mikael W said:
Eric, CEO of Fällkniven AB, told me of his solid VG-10 A1.
He wanted to try the laminated A1 when it was new,but had to break the old solid one before he started on the new A1.
He deliberately used it as hard as he could, trying to break it.
The last I heard of it, he still had the solid one! :D

Regards
Mikael
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This story, of Eric trying to break his A1, makes me sad. So, because I am a generous soul, I want to help him out, by giving that worn out old A1 a home. That way, he can move on to the laminated version, and stop wasting his time on that stubborn old solid version that won't break!
 
raindog101 said:
This story, of Eric trying to break his A1, makes me sad. So, because I am a generous soul, I want to help him out, by giving that worn out old A1 a home. That way, he can move on to the laminated version, and stop wasting his time on that stubborn old solid version that won't break!
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:D LOL! :thumbup:

They are indeed great knives and the market has an ever increasing demand for Fällkniven products.
The company seems to grow rapidly at the moment and both Peter and Eric are busier than ever before.


Regards
Mikael
 
Raindog, for what it's worth, my experiences with Fallkniven's VG10 laminate (in the S1 model) mirror those of Mikael's. I've taken nearly every opportunity I've found to recommend their knives. I haven't had any of the chipping problems that others have spoken of. My use has been a lot of woodwork, with just a bit of it being light chopping. I've only ever stropped, or in the worst case, used 1500 grit wet/dry sandpaper to bring the edge back after use, and it seems to improve more with every sharpening. I know the S1 isn't quite the size of the A1 you're looking at, but I figured it's close enough to the A1 to give you a decent representation of what you can expect.
 
BDT-E said:
Raindog, for what it's worth, my experiences with Fallkniven's VG10 laminate (in the S1 model) mirror those of Mikael's. I've taken nearly every opportunity I've found to recommend their knives. I haven't had any of the chipping problems that others have spoken of. My use has been a lot of woodwork, with just a bit of it being light chopping. I've only ever stropped, or in the worst case, used 1500 grit wet/dry sandpaper to bring the edge back after use, and it seems to improve more with every sharpening. I know the S1 isn't quite the size of the A1 you're looking at, but I figured it's close enough to the A1 to give you a decent representation of what you can expect.
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Thanks for the input. Seems like there are near-unanimous recommendations for the VG10 that FK uses. Sounds good to me. My only decision now is whether to go for the A1, or splurge on something like the Odin. I like me some stacked leather handles!
 
raindog101 said:
Thanks for the input. Seems like there are near-unanimous recommendations for the VG10 that FK uses. Sounds good to me. My only decision now is whether to go for the A1, or splurge on something like the Odin. I like me some stacked leather handles!
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The Odin is something special IMO.
Sometimes there are true bargains to be made on the second hand market.
However, it's seldom any of the NL's are listed and the owners tend to keep them.

The best bet is to find a store, with an unsold inventory and bargain for a good deal.
Regardless if You end up with the A1, A2 or the Odin, I think You will like the knife!


Regards
Mikael
 
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Got a reply from Fallkniven, they state any chipping problems were fixed long ago.
Guessing why they went laminate... Also means I was wrong about the mc1z.
 
Phoynix said:
Got a reply from Fallkniven, they state any chipping problems were fixed long ago.
Guessing why they went laminate... Also means I was wrong about the mc1z.
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Good to hear Phoynix! :)

Credit to You for searching the proper answers and tell us about it! :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:
You have my respect for this, Sir!


Regards
Mikael
 
It is too bad that Noss retired and let his videos and photos disappear...
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...allkniven-A1-Destruction-Test-Video-Completed
He performed a "destruction test" on a laminated A1 that was total madness :eek:
The knife came quite sharp. Smashing it into concrete, even at factory thickness, resulted in some chipping (bad) followed by denting (minor). Also a bit of the tip snapped off relatively easily when stabbed/bent into sheet metal. Both of these may be due to "burnt" edges, which is something to take note of even if you don't intend to use the knife thus ;) (I hope not) It would have been nice to see how a corrected edge would have performed, but such was not the nature of Noss' tests.

What was truly impressive was how strong the laminated blade is! Noss bounced 225lbs on the handle with the blade vised ~2.5" from the hilt until it fractured (again, no surprise, especially at this thickness) ... but it didn't snap! Due to the lamination, lateral stress encounters resistance from 3 separate layers of steel - even if one fails, the others keep the knife intact. After this, the blade was hammered with a 3-lb steel mallet through 1/8" x 2" mild steel without total failure (very rare in Noss' 'tests').

Should you then feel comfortable using the A1 as a concrete chisel or diving board or pounding through steel plate? I really hope not... but know that it CAN take it, so lesser tasks shouldn't be a problem as far as damage is concerned :thumbup:
That isn't to say that there are not "better" knives out there, be it higher cutting performance or aesthetics, etc. But is the A1 prone to breakage or chipping during simple wood-processing? I wish the videos were still around for you to see just how NOT prone the A1 is. That's my $0.02.
 
chiral.grolim said:
It is too bad that Noss retired and let his videos and photos disappear...
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...allkniven-A1-Destruction-Test-Video-Completed
He performed a "destruction test" on a laminated A1 that was total madness :eek:
The knife came quite sharp. Smashing it into concrete, even at factory thickness, resulted in some chipping (bad) followed by denting (minor). Also a bit of the tip snapped off relatively easily when stabbed/bent into sheet metal. Both of these may be due to "burnt" edges, which is something to take note of even if you don't intend to use the knife thus ;) (I hope not) It would have been nice to see how a corrected edge would have performed, but such was not the nature of Noss' tests.

What was truly impressive was how strong the laminated blade is! Noss bounced 225lbs on the handle with the blade vised ~2.5" from the hilt until it fractured (again, no surprise, especially at this thickness) ... but it didn't snap! Due to the lamination, lateral stress encounters resistance from 3 separate layers of steel - even if one fails, the others keep the knife intact. After this, the blade was hammered with a 3-lb steel mallet through 1/8" x 2" mild steel without total failure (very rare in Noss' 'tests').

Should you then feel comfortable using the A1 as a concrete chisel or diving board or pounding through steel plate? I really hope not... but know that it CAN take it, so lesser tasks shouldn't be a problem as far as damage is concerned :thumbup:
That isn't to say that there are not "better" knives out there, be it higher cutting performance or aesthetics, etc. But is the A1 prone to breakage or chipping during simple wood-processing? I wish the videos were still around for you to see just how NOT prone the A1 is. That's my $0.02.
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I've actually seen a few of his videos, but never saw the A1 test. Not something I would ever consider doing to a blade, but it is interesting to see just how much abuse some of these knives are capable of withstanding.
 
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