VG10 vs. 154cm

[19-3ben]

Pitting these two against one another, and assuming best practice for heat treating, and to remove variables, lets assume all things are equal with blade shape, geometry etc...


What are the pros/cons of each when compared? edge retention? corrosion resistance? shock resistance? etc...

 

[JR88FAN]

I think this is really a wash.

I really love both steels, been a while since I used anything other then CPM154 (powdered version) but I would think I would lean towards VG-10 in most cases.

Corrosion resistance is a wash.

Toughness is a wash. (You won't notice)

The major difference I have found is that while both are easy to sharpen, VG-10 will take a finer edge, 154 will hold a working edge a little longer.

Honestly, both great EDC steels.....

 

[knarfeng]

I think this is really a wash.

I agree. In every day use, I can't tell the difference.
VG10 might be a bit finer grained, and take a bit finer edge. But it's not a large difference.

I've never had either one corrode, and I live near the beach.

 

[stonproject]

Pitting these two against one another, and assuming best practice for heat treating, and to remove variables, lets assume all things are equal with blade shape, geometry etc...


What are the pros/cons of each when compared? edge retention? corrosion resistance? shock resistance? etc...

as said above, the properties are nearly the same.

but I like vg10 better. why? because most vg10 is a seki made knife and there's a ton of knives in vg10 I love.

 

[DeadboxHero]

I'm a big fan of VG10 but in reality it's too close to call.

Vg10 is also limited to Japanese manufactured knives making it even harder to answer your question.

A better comparison would be Japanese ATS 34 vs VG10
And 154cm versus N690co

Since you would have access to the same knife in each steel to evaluate yourself.


They all are very similar

The difference is

The VG10 and the N690co have the Cobalt which is a grain enhancer

The ATS 34 and the 154cm have 2% more Molybdenum which is a carbide former

Spyderco used to offer there knives in ATS 34 until upgrading when the Endura/Delica 4 came out.

and many hold N690co as a top performer.

My prefence is for vg10 and N690co because I've had great sharpening and performance experiences.
So I'm biased.

In the grand scheme there is nothing profound between the two if all things are equal.

CPM 154 might be different but in reality I haven't noticed anything profond.

What I can say for sure is that they are better then 420hc and 8cr13mov but don't hold an edge as long as S35vn, S30v

 

[19-3ben]

Thanks guys. You've confirmed pretty much what I thought. The reason I asked was because it seemed these two were super similar in performance, and I wanted to get a picture for which conditions might give one a slight advantage over the other.
Sounds like they're just too close to call.

Thanks again for the help.

 

[mete]

VG10, 154CM ,N690 are as best you can do without going to CPM types !

 

[Bike Doc]

Pitting these two against one another, and assuming best practice for heat treating, and to remove variables, lets assume all things are equal with blade shape, geometry etc...


What are the pros/cons of each when compared? edge retention? corrosion resistance? shock resistance? etc...

Does blade shape factor in at all??

 

[Velitrius]

Does blade shape factor in at all??

After 8 years? Nah... Heck, after 5 years pretty much nothing remains relevant.

How did you find such an old thread? Must have taken some digging.

Seriously though, I have numerous blade shapes in both of these steels and have owned literally hundreds more. I can't see that it makes much difference with these two steels.

Both remain favorites of mine to this day... yep, even 8 years later

 

[19-3ben]

Does blade shape factor in at all??

I had a thread get necro'd!! I feel like I win a prize for this, yes?

Bike Doc, you made this not just a Good Friday, now it's a great Friday!

 

[19-3ben]

Does blade shape factor in at all??

And to actually address your question, as pointed out, I asked this 8 years ago when i was a complete knife knoob. When I asked it, i was trying to get my bearings on what were some damn good steels of the day, and remain excellent steels. I was trying to remove all other variables, kind of like the Spyderco Mule Team knives, where the only difference from one to another is steel.

In the last 8 years, I've learned that I really like both VG10 and 154cm as well rounded every day user steels, and that if I had two knives that were identical other than the steel, I wouldn't be able to tell the difference between the two in real life use.

 

[Bike Doc]

Glad I could help make your day!!

 

[bucsfan69]

I love VG10 in my kitchen cutlery and it takes a really fine edge, but doesn’t remain razor sharp for an extended period of time. that being said it pretty much strops back to the crazy sharp edge without stonework . I’d have zero problem with either in an EDC, but there are so much tougher steels for that type of work

 

[Tsujigiri]

In addition to the VG-10, N690, 154CM, CPM-154, and ATS-34 mentioned in the thread so far, there's also RWL-34 and 10Cr15CoMoV, which are also pretty much the same.

I think even with the newer supersteels out today, these hold their own as very well-balanced options. For some reason 154CM is particularly popular in automatic knives and VG-10 is a mainstay for kitchen knives. I think Protech mentioned that they tried CPM154 but didn't think it was different enough in real use to justify the added cost. That kind of makes sense since the powder metallurgy process would mostly improve toughness, which people don't test to the limit in normal use.

 

[tony281sc2]

I like N690 quite bit. I’ve had/used a few “snap on”-Kershaw knives (the Dash, and the Hypes, BHQ exclusives IIRC) and the edge retention was pretty good.
I really couldn’t tell a difference between the N690 and the CPM-154 they use in the Launch series.
Once you get to S35VN and up (as far as edge retention) you’ll notice a difference, but for the price of these knives, N690 is not bad at all (~$70, USA made)

 

[19-3ben]

I like N690 quite bit. I’ve had/used a few “snap on”-Kershaw knives (the Dash, and the Hypes, BHQ exclusives IIRC) and the edge retention was pretty good.
I really couldn’t tell a difference between the N690 and the CPM-154 they use in the Launch series.
Once you get to S35VN and up (as far as edge retention) you’ll notice a difference, but for the price of these knives, N690 is not bad at all (~$70, USA made)

Definitely. I had N690 in my TOPS MSF and never had any issues with that edge.

 

[Macchina]

I agree. In every day use, I can't tell the difference.
VG10 might be a bit finer grained, and take a bit finer edge. But it's not a large difference.

I've never had either one corrode, and I live near the beach.

Though I of course respect knarfeng’s opinion, I strongly feel VG-10 takes a much finer edge than 154CM. I think everything else is a wash but man can I put a fine edge on VG10 in a couple minutes that rivals any steel in my collection. 154CM always feels a little more difficult to sharpen.

 

[DeadboxHero]

Though I of course respect knarfeng’s opinion, I strongly feel VG-10 takes a much finer edge than 154CM. I think everything else is a wash but man can I put a fine edge on VG10 in a couple minutes that rivals any steel in my collection. 154CM always feels a little more difficult to sharpen.

Heat treatment, processing and geometry are bigger variables then VG10 vs 154CM

 

[DMG]

I have always thought 154 was tougher and held an edge longer.