VIBRATION

I don't think that the trailmaster is even in the same league as the Busse or MD. It is a good knife for the money, but it is rediculous to even try to compare to the Steel Heart or Battle Mistress. Cold steel should have directed their attacks to the more immediate competition like SOG, Junglee, Katz, etc. They could have easily bested any of those, but instead they are trying to go against knives that have metallurgy way beyond anything CS knows how to do.
 
Cobalt I would bet the Trailmaster would not come out on top but I would not bet heavily as I have to see an unbiased review comparing any of those knives.

As for being out of its league. A Trailmaster is made from Carbon V which the last I heard is actually a particular type of steel now and not just a catchall name. In any case any decent high carbon steel that is tempered well should be pretty tough, take and hold a decent edge well. I would be very curious to know just how much of a difference in performance you would see between the above knives.

Value of course is a subject thing. For example lets assume that Bill could wave a magic wand and make all his khukuris have 50% better edge holding, how much more would you pay for that? Ask that question (in a general fashion) to various knife owners and you will get extreemly different responses.

What is the point of all this? Well simply put even though some people will pay a significant amount for rather small preformace increases (I am one of them) in regards to knives. There are a lot more people would could not care any less. For those people the fact that the Busse maybe (for example) 25% better at chopping does not make it worth the extra price.

-Cliff
 
Agreed on those points, and after our conversation over Email this morning, I may be even willing to bet that the Trailmaster or Recon Scout will do well against the MD in the toughness department in fact, probably best it.
 
Bill you should mark that on the customs forums.

<blockquote>
Rusty Spring - Value $250
</blockquote>

Cobalt would you mind if I quoted the information you provided me on the CS knives in the review I am writing?

-Cliff

[This message has been edited by Cliff Stamp (edited 18 March 1999).]
 
Cliff, not at all, go ahead and use it for what you will, in fact I can probably take a snapshot with me doing it on the desk for all to see if you want. Send it to you and you can post it when you do the rest of the review.

I also just tried my spec ops ats-34 machete, which is actually more of a bowie than a machete with it's 9.25 inch blade, 3/16 inch thick. It definitely flexed but gave no signs of wanting to break so I continued until it started to lift my hand off the table. It never failed. Pretty tough for a 3/16 inch, 9 inch long blade.
 
Thanks, I'll add the info as having a reference point is very valuable. Saying an Ang Khola can chop well does not really say much as you don't know what I mean by well. But if I say an Ang Khola can outchop a hatchet, that's a much more meaningful statement. Send the pics if you can they would be interesting.

-Cliff
 
Unfortunately sharpness is subjective. Wayne Goddard the test would most likely be much more sensitive to how sharp a blade is than most of us. When he feels an edge has lost its bite, I may think it is still quite sharp.

Do you guys think the the shallow angle that was used in the test has any affect. Could the edges become distorted and a bit of steeling may be in order. This seems unlikely considering the hardness of the steels used.

Cobalt I would be interested in your comments about Cold Steel knives.

Will
 
Will, I think the only two detractors to CS knives are Lynn and the serrations(Cocky and Ginsu). Their Carbon V is supposed to be 50100B steel which is one tough customer. I have the vaquero grande(doesn't everybody) and the only thing I don't like is the serrations. I also have the Recon Tanto, SRK and Recon Scout. I used to have a trailmaster(Carbon V) that I gave away because it was so scratched up it became ugly. I used to use it as a throwing knife, machete, post hole digger, weed killer plastic 55 gallon drum hole puncher and hammer. I gave it to a friend that was going to do some traveling. My A.K. now does all those duties. I have not really been hard on the other three CS knives, but they are all hefty chunks of steel that should perform well. Now, I don't know anything about their AUS-8 fixed blades since I have never had one. I used to have a Master Tanto in San Mai that was decent, but I never really abused it either. I bought it and sold it shortly thereafter.
 
I want you all to know that everything that's been said in this thread can be used against you in a court of law.

And further more, can two 20" Sirupatis be spot welded together and used as a tuning fork for a piano? Certainly the steels mentioned above exhibit great resonance, I mean vibrations, er, uh, torque-type stuff, not to mention other unbelievable metallurgical properties. (Insert yellow smily face here).
 
Mike, using two sirupati's for tuning fork might just work. But don't drop them into the piano or you may not need to worry about ever tuning that piano again.
 
Interesting that you should mention a khukuri tuning fork. Spring steel is noted for ringing when you bang with it or sharpen it. My 20" Ang Khola rings pleasently when I burnish it. Maybe one of the reasons why everyone reports their 20" Ang Khola came razor sharp.

Will
 
Will what makes something sharp is obviously very subjective. Ask me and Bill and Cobalt to sharpen a khukuri and you will most likely get 3 different finishes as we all do what is best for us. Even well used phrases such as "shaving sharp" are not well defined.

When Wayne comments:

<blockquote>
the strand is parted and cutting continues until the cutting edge loses its bite into the rope
</blockquote>

His interpretation of "loses its bite" would probably be different than mine.

As for the low angle yes that would make the edge far less durable. One thing to note is that the loss of sharpness could easily be repaired with a simple steel as you noted. It would be interesting to see which one lasted the longest before you actually needed to take a stone to it. If anyone was going to try this use something more abrasive than rope. Try used carpet.

-Cliff
 
One thing of note, I can use the spyderco sharpmaker on the khukuri and put an extremely sharp edge on it. But if I want to maintain that convex edge, the burnisher is the way to go. Also, I do not use fine stones when I sharpen because I like my knives to have some grab to them. In fact I usually rough up the extreme polishing that comes with the CS knives.

By the way did you guys know that CS uses a convex edge on the Trailmaster stainless and San Mai.
 
I think sharpness is in the eye of the user as Cliff and Will suggeted.

A khukuri tuning fork! Now there's something I hadn't thought of.

Bill
 
Going back to the original topic regarding vibrations -- what about harmonic balance?

This is a quality you look for in swords where the node of vibrations occures a few inches down the blade instead of locating in the tang. All swords worth their salt the world-over, must be harmonically balanced otherwise you'll feel it when you hit or chop the target. This has nothing to do with dampening the vibrations but rather moveing it someplace other than where the hand would be. Notice the vibration will feel different as you move your grip up and down the handle.

To get harmonic balance, the smith have to be very careful with how he deals with the over all shaping and geometry of the blade and tang. An important part of this is manner of the tapering of the blade (swords tend to get pointier toward the tip).

Since khukuris get wider, not narrower at the tip, I don't know if this is at all possible in this case. I do know that a secondary method to achieve HB is to use one or more fullers on the spine. I noticed fullers were used on some old khukuris as well as the H.I. signature khukuri on knifeforums.

------------------
No, I was never lost. But I was mighty bewildered one time for three days.

--- Daniel Boone



[This message has been edited by tallwingedgoat (edited 20 May 1999).]
 
Tallwingedgoat, Will has commented before about the comfort of the handle when different grips are used. Cobalt has discussed node points before as well. What I can say from a comfort point of view is that regardless of how it is achieved, if you use a stiff wrist grip you can slam the khukuri extremely hard into something and feel little effect.

-Cliff
 
Tallwingedgoat

Interesting points you bring up. Although, intuitively, it seems like having a node in the handle would be a good thing. I would rather hold a node than an antinode.

How are the vibrational modes of a sword mapped? I’ve seen mappings of modes for pie plates, violins, and various objects, but not swords. The old style of mapping used sand or dust on flat items to produce Chladni (sp?) patterns. The dust would migrate to the nodes. I think laser interferometry is used nowadays, but I’m not sure of the technique.

Cliff, Maybe this is an extra-credit project for an aspiring physics student. Map the normal modes of a khukuri and post the pictures here for us? The results could be interesting.
 
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