Vic buys Wenger

[tnozh]

I'm not sure what you mean. By multitool, I'm referring to folding pliers with tools in the handles. These have a different purpose than a small SAK, which is fine for general utility. Multitools are more industrial.

agreed. however, there is a great deal of overlap here (besides the fact tha MT have their tools inside their handles). For example, if you look at the tools on the SwissTool Spirit and SwissChamp XLT you will see that they have quite a few in common.

The only SAK I had with pliers was a Wenger, which was much clumsier than any multitool I've used, and the pliers actually blocked the use of one of the blades.

The Vic SwissChamp and the SwissChamp XLT, to name two, both have pliers check here

I still sometimes carry my Victorinox Ranger for a walk in the woods, which is the smallest SAK I've found with scissors, saw, and file, and it's not exactly small. I might as well carry a multitool in a belt pouch. I also have an Eddie Bauer Wenger that I got on sale, that was certainly their largest model at the time. It makes a great desk knife but I can't imagine carrying anything so bulky, with such lightweight tools.

ok. that's one of the differences in concept I am trying to figure out: acceptable size. from what you are saying a multi-tool does not need to be as small as a SAK, in fact, it is probably expected to be larger. but there must be other criteria which differentiate these two concepts (SAK vs. MT). For example, I wonder what kind of jobs the pliers on a MT are supposed to be capable of doing compared to a SAK (on the vics the pliers are not all that strong and even though I never owned a MT I suspect that the latter's pliers are much stronger - correct?).

Or - to put it even more simply: I am a happy owner of a SwissChamp XLT with 50 tools on it:

but I do not have a multi-tool of any brand. what am I missing?

TN

PS: while I am picking your brains for MT knowledge - what is, in your opinion, the top-of-the-line MT out there? (that's subjective, I know, but I still want to see what you think).

 

[Esav Benyamin]

OK, I think I understand the question now. But I don't know what top-of-the-line would mean to me, except perhaps most-tools & most-expensive The Charge and Wave are like the new Spirit Swiss Tool , big, strong, fully equipped, with light-industrial strength pliers. The original Swiss Tool is as good as any multi on the market, but like the Leatherman Supertools and the SOG Powerlock, it is pretty massive.

I prefer to look for most-useful & most-cost-effective: buy everything you need on a multitool that has as few non-essentials as possible. For me, that's now the Leatherman Blast. The handle is 4" long; the plier head is 2.25".

Leatherman multitools fall into two or three categories. There are the keychain tools or similar small products, like the Micra or Juices. There are the mid-size, with varying toolkits, like the Blast. There are the high-end, really just bigger versions like the mid-size, like the Charge Ti and XTi and the Wave. Other companies have a similar line-up.

These overlap the SAKs in size and tools included, except: 1) multitools generally are engineered to take greater torque than most SAKs, and 2) multitools are built around heavy-duty pliers, not the "jewelry" pliers on most SAKs.

Your SwissChamp XLT is like my Wenger desk knife. It's got "everything" -- except that I have no real use for most of the tools, and many of the ones I do use are for lighter work than the multitool can handle.

 

[tnozh]

Hi Esav,

Thanks a lot for the comments and link. I will read up on MT and, eventually, get one I am sure - they really look great.

Cheers

 

[klattman]

If anyone is interested and ventures over to the multitool forum on this site you can learn everything you ever wanted (or didn't want ) to know about them.. We have reviews and lengthy discussions of SAK vs. multi tools and Vic swisstools etc.

Searching for any specific model (SAK or multi tool)in that forum will likely tell you more about it than any manufacturer's site.

There are more size categories IMO:
1. HUGE: SOG PowerLock, orig. Swisstool, LM Supertool, Gerber legend 800
2. Med/Large: LM wave, Charge and Swiss Tool Spirirt. most other gerbers.
3. Med/small: LM Juice. Most SAKs would be about this size
4. Mini tools: LM Squirt, Sog crosscut, swiss-tech tools, keychain SAKs.

Though I think I agree with Esav, get the smallest device that has the implements you need.

 

[poussin]

MT and SAK have always been a bit strange to me.

All those tools really seem to be there to make you fell like "in case of... I'll have the right tool", although you know that all those tools will fail at least ten times more quickly than a mid-end dedicated tool...

Therefore the word "industrial" realy seems to be inappropriated here.

I really feel like apart from the minimalists SAKs (soldier...), all this is just about marketing from Vic and the others, and maybe a bit of showing-off for the owner. (hey baby, wanna have a look thru my magnifying glass ?)

Do I miss a thing ?

 

[klattman]

MT and SAK have always been a bit strange to me.

All those tools really seem to be there to make you fell like "in case of... I'll have the right tool", although you know that all those tools will fail at least ten times more quickly than a mid-end dedicated tool...

Therefore the word "industrial" realy seems to be inappropriated here.

I really feel like apart from the minimalists SAKs (soldier...), all this is just about marketing from Vic and the others, and maybe a bit of showing-off for the owner. (hey baby, wanna have a look thru my magnifying glass ?)

Do I miss a thing ?

Multi-tools aren't as strong as dedicated tools, but will perform most functions fairly well. They save time hunting down the 'right' tool (especially when co-workers don't put them away), and are plenty tough for most jobs.

If the job requires, you spend the extra time finding the dedicated tool.

A multi will last almost forever if well cared for, most have 25 year up to lifetime warranties.

BTW, close-up work and aging eyes appreciate having a magnifying glass on hand... and you can start a fire with it too.

 

[Esav Benyamin]

Poussin, I used to be a Postal Service manager. I worked variously in a factory, office, and delivery station, with vehicles.

I always used to carry a SAK and a small pair of pliers, and used them constantly. Instead of calling maintenance and filling out workorders, I tightened screws, repaired doorknobs coming loose, and did the same for our trucks.

On my time off, I pruned torn branches on trees in the park and on city streets -- my neighbors would point them out to me if I hadn't gone down their block recently.

Once I got a multitool, it was even easier. If you need a carpenter or a toolbox, you may not get the job done until the shelf falls down. But with a multitool handy, you get into the habit of fixing, fixing, fixing every loose end before it breaks. That's industrial enough for me. Safety and convenience in one.

 

[poussin]

you get into the habit of fixing, fixing, fixing

Oh I see... But I'm already in the habit of sharpening, sharpening, sharpening and it's difficult enough to get rid of this addiction. You know how people look at me. ("what ?! you travel with a sharpening stone ?!") Now I try not to be a victim of other bad habits. May shelves collapse.

a magnifying glass on hand... and you can start a fire with it too.

The glass on SAKs is really small. Anyway, it is like the solar powered torch, which only works under the sun.


But apart from these cynical considerations, I did not believe that SAK tools could be really convenient on a daily use basis. That was the main point.

(as for "industrial" I always hear the word in a biased way cause of my regular use of cutting tools powered by 36kW engines)

Have a nice day. I'll ensure to have a nice night now.

Best regards,

Mathias

 

[tnozh]

MT and SAK have always been a bit strange to me. All those tools really seem to be there to make you fell like "in case of... I'll have the right tool", although you know that all those tools will fail at least ten times more quickly than a mid-end dedicated tool. Therefore the word "industrial" realy seems to be inappropriated here. I really feel like apart from the minimalists SAKs (soldier...), all this is just about marketing from Vic and the others, and maybe a bit of showing-off for the owner. (hey baby, wanna have a look thru my magnifying glass ?)

Do I miss a thing ?

Hi,

Yes, I think you do. As a long time Vic SwissChamp user who recently upgraded to the SwissChamp XLT I hope that I can explain this.

First, you are comparing things which should not be compared - appples and oranges. SAKs (I will not speak of other MT which I have never used) are *not* designed to replace a complete set of "real" tools. If you have all that you need in your suitcase, pickup truck or work shack then you are unlikely to need a SAK (although at least one prefessional who uses his SAK finds one of the SAK blades "awesome").

The point here is: what is the weight of a full tool-set? How likely are you to carry one around with you? I would suggest that this is not likely at all. So a SAK should only be compared to either you bare hands or to hacked tools put together "on the fly" so to speak.

Second - look at the tools on the SwissChamp XLT (I use this example because it would be considered by many as a "bloated" or maximalist - as you would put it - SAK and because I use one). Most of them I have used on one occasion or another, with the exception of the electrician's blade and reamer - but others have used them. Even the less useful ones - like the fish scaler - have a useful function (in this case the ruler). On a more amusing note - I have to admit that the "Pharmaceutical Spatula" on the SwissChamp XLT seems a little strange, but that it might be very useful for coke users and drug dealers (and that is not a small maket either ).

Essentially, the SwissChamp XLT is the combination of the "general purpose" SwissChamp and the specialized Cybertool 41. Being myself a computer software engineer and sysadmin, I *love* this knife: it gives me the basic set of tools to mess around my hardware combined with a neat set of tools for the proverbial "in case of" that you mention. As long as I do not kid myself about the fact that these tools are mostely not on par with dedicated instruments - I get a great deal in a hyper-compact and light combination.

Lastly - but not irrelevantly - SAKs are a great exercise in design and compromise. Of course there is a "cool factor" here . And I think that there is nothing wrong with that either. I often just like to find a pretext to use it because it is fun. That is something which I do never feel with fully "utilitarian" tools.

Does that make sense?

Cheers

 

[Lavan]

Esav......How could one "go postal" with a ....knife????



Well, on second thought a SWISS ARMY KNIFE.....hmmm.....but oh the horror.