Victorinox to shut down Wenger

I suppose that a global market can only support a handful of global brands. Place Wegner next to automobile maker Saab.

In my non-traditional hunting around, I noticed that Leatherman is making a lobster style patern now, or at least very a very close variant of it.
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We've discussed in the past whether or not GEC would or could step up to a revival of the US style camper. Now I'm wondering if perhaps Leatherman might be better positioned to offer one. Spear blade, screw driver cap lifter, scissors and file/Phillips. That's what I'd like to see.
 
New camper pattern? You can find a Vic Recruit for $15 or less after taxes (in most states) from wallyworld. Knowing that, why would anyone even try to compete against the consistent quality and value for money Vic offers?

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For me, it is three things. The first is shameless desire to see a US manufacturer pick up the legacy of the traditional BSA/camper pattern. I'm aware of the Case offering but it leaves me cold.

Second, the published spec for Victorinox's Inox is 54Rc. IME, that's too soft.

Third, I'm underwhelmed by the durability of Victorinox knives.
 
Ideally, I'd like to see Victorinox continue as-is, but retaining the Wenger brand for more non-traditional Swiss Army Knife products like the Evo, Ranger, and RealTree knives. Guess that's not in the plans though. :(
 
For me, it is three things. The first is shameless desire to see a US manufacturer pick up the legacy of the traditional BSA/camper pattern. I'm aware of the Case offering but it leaves me cold.

Second, the published spec for Victorinox's Inox is 54Rc. IME, that's too soft.

Third, I'm underwhelmed by the durability of Victorinox knives.

For the quality and value VIC offers at their excellent price point, another steel still wouldn't compete. You've made your hate of Vic steel quite apparent and often, but you'll just have to accept many just do not agree with you.

Sure, a small US company, like GEC, could make a small run and charge much higher prices for them, but it would only be successful on a truly small level. How many people wouldbuy a GEC camper, and then how many would buy more than one. Even a larger company would have difficulties. I'd venture to say Case's camper is but an extremely tiny portion of its sales.
 
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I am not a particularly hard user of knives, so my opinion on Vic durability is suspect. My Dad was hard on tools though, and his Vic survived a couple of decades with only scratches to show for it. I have seen broken cellidor pretty often on others' knives, but those scales are replaceable, no? The build quality is so uniform and robust, does anyone else have durability problems? The one I use the most is a one-handed trekker, which I guess doesn't have the thickest stock, but seems to be built like a tank.
 
New camper pattern? You can find a Vic Recruit for $15 or less after taxes (in most states) from wallyworld. Knowing that, why would anyone even try to compete against the consistent quality and value for money Vic offers?

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That is why I don't think anyone would attempt it. For one, as a pocket knife pattern in the 21st century, the scout knife is a thing of the past. Even when I was in the scouts, I very very rarely saw an adult with a scout knife. Even when they had to resort to carrying keychain screw drivers and such, the scout knife was considered a "boy scout knife" for the boys in scouting. Grown up men carried jacks of some sort or another.

Then Buck came out with the 110, and the whole knife world turned upside down.

Almost overnight, the large single blade lock back took over the knife market. Buck's were seen on the belts of every construction worker, hunter, truck driver, soldier, and biker. Imitation Buck's came from all over the map. But through it all, the Swiss Army KNife held onto a niche market of back packers and hikers. When back packing got to be a minor religion in the 60's and 70's, and Colin Fletcher became a guru of sorts, the SAK became an icon, and the company Victorinox grew humongous. Vic gained market shares of their side of the cutlery industry, and then they even had a TV show with the good guy doing all kinds of things with a SAK. By the end of the 20th century, they were the largest knife company on earth, and the most mechanized. Tim Leatherman is responsible.

When Tim Leatherman came out with his tool, the rulers at the Vicytorinox kingdom knew they had to act. Carl Eisner held a meeting of the board, and they decieded to invest an unprecedented amount of company profit back into the company in the best, high speed CNC machining centers that were available. The result was extremely high speed production, and unforeseen quality control in the end product from having extremely high precision parts to assemble. Nobody can compete with Vic in this slot. Even the boy scout knife is now a SAK. Look at the modern scout, and a red handle Swiss product will be hanging from his belt. The SAK is now the official boy scout knife, so now you have a whole new generation, or two, that will grow up associating boy scout knife with the red handle and silver cross. I believe that Vic even has some models with the scout logo on the scale.

So what company is going to even think of trying to go against this? At the price point they sell the recruit at, there's just no way to compete. For the low sum of 14.95, a bit less on sale, you get a good quality basic knife, with a screw driver and cap lifter tossed in. And they are kid proof. With an unconditional life time warrantee, you just send it in, and they fix or replace it free. Victorinox stands behind thier products like I wouldn't have believed. Watches, luggage, pens. Karen had a Vic rolling suitcase that she traveled with. Put a lot of miles on it traveling back to Texas and Goerga to see family. She must have had 100K on it. One of the wheels broke, and she sent it back. They put all new wheels on it, reconditioned it, including a new zipper that Karen had not complained about, it was just a bit finicky. Now Karen is a Victorinox fan for life. She won't leave the house without her little classic on her keys. She became a Vic fan for life.

How is another company going to fight that? Can't be done. It's like the old VW bug of the 60's that became one of the most popullar selling cars in the country. Every other drive way had a beatle in it. They gave you a good product, for a good price, and people loved it. Some people, like my own father, never warmed up to them, calling it a nazi taxi. But it remains a historical car because of the numbers sold. Heck, I was a bug fan for 30 years. A SAK is like that. An icon that will not be replaced because too many people love them. On international market surveys, the SAK logo is right up there with Coke and Bic. But it's a tight world market now, and they can't keep both Vic and Wenger. LIke GM had to sacrifice Pontiac to save Chevy, Wenger has to go to the chopping block. Too bad, Wenger had a lot going for them. I love my old SI. But it's a tough market now. Nothing remains the same.

Carl.
 
For me, it is three things. The first is shameless desire to see a US manufacturer pick up the legacy of the traditional BSA/camper pattern. I'm aware of the Case offering but it leaves me cold.

Second, the published spec for Victorinox's Inox is 54Rc. IME, that's too soft.

Third, I'm underwhelmed by the durability of Victorinox knives.

Victorinox steel may be too soft for you, but for their targeted market, they sharpen up easily even by novice knife sharpeners and they last. Their durability is quite good, actually amazingly good.

Great summary Jackknife.

I don't think any US company could compete with Victorinox. The ending of the Wenger production is sad, but I personally only own one Wenger and probably a dozen Vics. I won't miss Wengers. They are still going to use the Wenger name for watches and so forth, so the likelihood of Victorinox selling the name is reduced. A Chinese company would be the most likely buyer or a US company such as United and then manufacture everything in China.

I find the Victorinox knives amazing actually and consistantly of high quality. In most cases, you aren't buying a $100 knife. They work very well and I am a big advocate since first starting to carry one back in the mid-1980's. The Vic replaced a Case and a small Schrade at that time.
 
I have never tried either one of the Swiss Multi-tool brands but my local Kmart is going out of business and they have knives marked down 40% right now. Most of it is China junk but they have a few Wenger Highlanders and Wenger Evo S 10 models left that I'm thinking about picking up. I can get the Highlander for $12 and the Evo for a little under $14. I'm going to wait until tomorrow morning though as they put the new price reductions up on Friday nights so hopefully they are down to 50% tomorrow. :) IF they are down to 50% I'll probably grab a couple of each and I'll do a giveaway.

we had them shut down all over here in central Florida. I got 2 of there scooters. I had to put some money into them but they are a god send. just look for all of the deals. the ones that shut down here where just giving the stuff away. A friend of mine bought a bunch of craftsman tool from them. They where so cheap he put them on ebay for ½ of what sears where charging for them. Maybe you could do the same thing.
 
Please discuss the knives or the companies that make them. Not where to buy them or who is going out of business.
 
On the way down to a local knife show today, I got thinking about what a good New Camper design should include. (At the show I picked up a $10 Ulster Scout that needs a good cleaning and some TLC on the shield-side scale — it's faded.) Anyway, I figured that it should have main blade, scissors, and pliers. The main blade on a center spring, flanked on each side by scissors and pliers, both about as long and robust as the blade. That would make for decent sizes for them.

What about the can opener/bottlecap lifter? Let me ask those more knowledgable — Is it even possible to combine these tools into a single blade? Can you reconfigure the can opener (later style) so it also lifts bottlecaps? How short can it be and still work?

Or perhaps the bottlecap/can opener/whatever could share the center spring with the main blade, which could also be a bit shorter than it normally is. Or perhaps both are offset to overlap (but not rub) when closed.

Edit: Or put the can opener/bottlecap lifter onto the backside?
 
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I grabbed one of the Wenger Highlanders today as they did mark them down to 50% off. I only grabbed one though because I wanted to try it out before I bought several of them and I honestly really like this knife! Keep in mind I have never owned a Victorinox to compare to but the fit and finish seems excellent to me. Walk and talk are great and the pull is nice and smooth I'd rate most of the tools about a 4 or 5 and the philips screw driver tool about an 8 or so. I will try to get a picture up later tonight. I'm headed back to grab another Highlander and the last 2 Evolution S 10's now.
 
Good summary @Jackknife. Wenger will likely continue as a watch brand, at least for the time being. On the old original 4-blade camper/US GI/boy scout design the can opener was more likely to be used for opening beer ( for any youngsters reading, in the days before pulltab pop top rings that's how you got the beer can open) than canned food. The punch/awl never made much sense to me; there were other tools I would have voted for to replace it.
I was looking around for a good SAK for a gift for an Eagle Scout nephew and was kind of surprised at how little has changed in the folder market in the last 20 to 25 years. The Swiss Champ still has most of the bases covered for outdoors activities and at an amazing price; on Amazon delivered for $40+ is less than I remember paying 15 years ago and quality has not been lowered in the meantime. The lack of innovation tells me Vic mgmt must feel they're firmly enthroned atop their market. I've been carrying SAK's since my first one at 17 and todays' is as high quality as the 1970s versions with no visible cutting of corners, and I can't think of many other manufactured products that can say the same.
The drawback to the SAK for me has always been the main blade not locking, and I'd rather the spear point were a little differently shaped. I've had a number over the decades and never had one fail, unless you count 2 broken scizzors springs (I know now that Vic would have replaced them if I'd asked). They've been bulletproof except the one I dropped 150 feet onto rocks climbing in Colorado. When I recovered the knife one of the plastic scales had popped off but all the blades worked perfectly, no damage at all to the mechanicals. Durability is not an issue, although haters gotta hate :-)
A more ergonomic handle design would be good. I'd like a locking main blade. Maybe a range of colors (I've always preferred black over the trademark red; I'd like the option of an olive drab or a navy). Other than that I can't think of many feasible improvements, and again there are few manmade objects I can say that about.
 
Tallahassee,

Victorinox has added larger, one-hand opening/locking SAKs. They still have the spear point blade, which I find is a good general purpose design.
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I have Boomer-nostalgia for my long lost 1960s 'official' Scout knife, and I'm thinking about finding a vintage replacement just to have it. I remember when you could go into any Sears, hardware store or gas station and see a new Kamp King for a dollar or two. I never liked the Wenger can opener, bottle opener or scissors as well as the Vic versions.
 
Dogstar, what model is that Vic you posted?

It's the soldier... not really a traditional knife any more, so we should discuss this elswhere. If you go to the Victorinox site, you should be able to find a handful of other models like this one.
 
SAK's leave me rather cold

I like them as tools but the knife doesn't really work for me. I'd much prefer something in a traditional pattern

maybe one day GEC will pull their finger out and sought the saw blade...
 

'Fess up, this entire thread is just a thinly-veiled guise for your hand-wringing concern about if and how the Wenger shutdown will affect your beloved keychain Classic-- yes?




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:D

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Count me among those who hope the Wenger scissors design (lever-age and slight serration vs. Victorinox's spring) will abide in some implementation....

~ P.
 
What about the can opener/bottlecap lifter? Let me ask those more knowledgable — Is it even possible to combine these tools into a single blade? Can you reconfigure the can opener (later style) so it also lifts bottlecaps? How short can it be and still work?
?

They have combined them on the Vic bantam, the most minimalistic of the regular size SAK's. The combo tool is a favorite of mine, as it succeeds in eliminating a whole layer in the SAK. With a blade and combo tool, a bantam will do what a recruit will do, with less bulk.
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I'm actually surprised it didn't happen sooner. One of the knives I keep in my BOB is a Wenger EvoGrip 18. Has an excellent combination of tools.
 
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