VIDEO: Spyderco Manix 2 Hard Use test

[Hitthespot]

I really thought my Manix 2 was a lot stronger than that. In fact I fugured it was much stronger than the lock backs I have. Not so sure now? I sure would like to see if those results are repeatable or if you really did have a lemon. I'm almost tempted to send you mine, but even if it passes I won't have one anyway! lol

Thanks Ankerson and TheKnifeDude for the tests.

Bill

 

[boef800]

Yep, looks like a loc tite failure. More than likely none was put on it. Nothing can be expected to work right if it does not keep it's tolerances. I can see how it would fail pretty easy if the liners were allowed to spread apart. Horizontal blade play is not a function of the lock, it is the pivot screw getting loose. Continuing to use the knife with a loose pivot should not have been done as it does not prove anything about the lock. It does say something about what was trying to be accomplished. I noticed a few other things between the videos but I will leave it at this for now.

Saying this lock is junk because the screws got loose from lack of loc tite is like saying a $75,000 NASCAR engine is junk because someone forgot to put the drain plug in.

Yes,
Re-test with properly adjusted pivot,please.That would be interesting.The Manix 2 pivot can easily be adjusted to have zero bladeplay without hindering a fluid action just by screwing the pivot screws down.IMHO it's a very nice pivot system.

 

[KennyB]

I think the blade play did probably weaken the lock, but I don't see how that invalidates the test. If there was no loc tite out of the box, and that produced blade play that jeopardized the lock. I think it's a fair comparison to the Griptillian in the other video, seeing as it had blade-play after the piece of wood was cut to shreds, and its lock still didn't fail even though the pivot wasn't adjusted.

Past all that, if you're going to be using a folder for "hard use" which it probably isn't suited to, then taking the time to adjust the pivot in the middle of the task probably won't be an option.

I have to say, it looks like the Manix cut through that wood a lot easier/faster than the Griptillian. What would you chalk that up to? Blade geometry, sharpness?

 

[Blop]

The knife is destroyed. Look here:http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=759147&page=2

Look post #35

 

[Blop]

I have to say, it looks like the Manix cut through that wood a lot easier/faster than the Griptillian. What would you chalk that up to? Blade geometry, sharpness?

A bit of both and edge angle too. The Manix2 has a hollow ground sabre blade. I guess, the AL has the widest edge angle and the Grip inbetween.

 

[Ankerson]

Yes,
Re-test with properly adjusted pivot,please.That would be interesting.The Manix 2 pivot can easily be adjusted to have zero bladeplay without hindering a fluid action just by screwing the pivot screws down.IMHO it's a very nice pivot system.

I tried that.

After the video I tightened up the knife to give it a 2nd chance, I thought it should have really done better than it did...

Well after 4 whacks the lock completely blew apart.

 

[hardheart]

This may not be fixed by tightening down screws, the screws may need to be moved, or some other design change made. The issue seems to stem from the use of a ball (well, the initial issue is beating on a knife, but that's just what the test is) By using a ball, the contact surface with the liners is as small as possible, practically tangential. This creates a lot of pressure at the point of contact. Couple that with the smooth continuous curvature, and the liners can 'flow' around the surface of the ball once they have begun to spread due to the extreme concentration of force at the points of contact.

If the thickness of the liners, the distance of the pivot and assembly screws from the lock ball, and the depth of the contact area between the ball and liners is not optimized for this type of ab/use, then the liners will begin to deflect/flex, the ball will embed between the liner surfaces instead of in the milled slots, leverage will increase along the surface of the ball, and the liners will be flexed/bent further.

I don't think it would be too difficult to 'fix' if Spyderco feels the need to beef up the folder. Thicker metal on the liners (at least at the lock interface), adjust the way the top ramp is mounted to aid in keeping the ball captive.

Still, if you look at the most popular Spydercos, they aren't going to fall into this sort of activity, and are still bought without fears. And we still need to ask ourselves, or wait for video, of the 'hard use' series of knives, like Emersons, Striders, Hinderers, ZTs, etc. and see how much better liner & frame locks do.

 

[singularity35]

IMHO, the direction that Spyderco is going towards is for more lighter and medium use knives. The old manix, the lil temp, and the chinook 1 are probably more hard use than anything they have in production now.

 

[boef800]

I tried that.

After the video I tightened up the knife to give it a 2nd chance, I thought it should have really done better than it did...

Well after 4 whacks the lock completely blew apart.

Ahh,right. Now that you say that,I think you already mentioned it before,eh?
So do you think it could be that at that point the structure of the lock was already damaged or would you discard this possibility?

 

[Buffalohump]

Yeah! Bring it on..... question is, who's going to donate them?

And we still need to ask ourselves, or wait for video, of the 'hard use' series of knives, like Emersons, Striders, Hinderers, ZTs, etc. and see how much better liner & frame locks do.

 

[singularity35]

Wouldn't a good idea be for the companies making and selling them to donate? Unless these companies fear the results of these tests. Maybe a standardized annual test for the best hard use knife of the year award. With observers making sure that there is minimal bias. They could make this a big affair concurrent with a blade show.

 

[FlaMtnBkr]

Ahh,right. Now that you say that,I think you already mentioned it before,eh?
So do you think it could be that at that point the structure of the lock was already damaged or would you discard this possibility?

It was almost definitely damaged already. He said the lock was getting stuck in the open position. That is not the sign of a undamaged knife. Tightening it up at that point shows nothing.

 

[FlaMtnBkr]

Wouldn't a good idea be for the companies making and selling them to donate? Unless these companies fear the results of these tests. Maybe a standardized annual test for the best hard use knife of the year award. With observers making sure that there is minimal bias. They could make this a big affair concurrent with a blade show.

I doubt it. That would be like them saying it is OK to abuse their knives. Do you know how many broken knives they would get from people beating on them claiming they thought it was OK since they do it? Or when some person cuts their hand off and then tries to sue them because they said they were just doing what they saw in their video. This is probably one of the reasons Cold Steel only has a one year warranty.

Only a small amount of knife users even care if their knife can be beat on with a stick and slammed into a hard object repeatedly.

 

[Ankerson]

It was almost definitely damaged already. He said the lock was getting stuck in the open position. That is not the sign of a undamaged knife. Tightening it up at that point shows nothing.

I tightened it up before it was stuck open, not after...

The real damage came after I tightened up the knife.

 

[singularity35]

I doubt it. That would be like them saying it is OK to abuse their knives.

hhhmm, if that's so then why aren't a lot of people crashing their cars deliberately because of crash tests? I would think it's just the fear of manufacturers of their products not living up to their hype. That's just me BTW.

 

[nidhoggr]

Wouldn't a good idea be for the companies making and selling them to donate? Unless these companies fear the results of these tests. Maybe a standardized annual test for the best hard use knife of the year award. With observers making sure that there is minimal bias. They could make this a big affair concurrent with a blade show.

That's usually not done not for fear of the results; but issues of bias, getting a non standard knife etc. Noss of knifetests.com turned down an offer from strider for a free knife to test for example. When you get free stuff from the manufacturer it brings into question whether or not the tester will be impartial. Consumer reports, a well known organization for testing all sorts of products do not take donated products from manufacturers

Spyderco makes their knives to cut well, I've never heard of their knives being advertised as the one you use to pry apart cars etc. The mule program isn't around to let people see what steel can hack apart a car best, but for cutting performance.

 

[myowngod]

The manix2 was not billed as a "Hard Use" knife, but the general consensus among owners (including myself) was that it is a tough little knife with a strong lock and a general heft/solidity to it. Watching it be obliterated like that pretty much destroys that perception, but I don't see the Manix2 failing at anything spyderco intended it to be used for. That said... I'll be the first to admit I don't always use my knives as intended and this video did spook me a little since I carry my manix2 quite often.

 

[hardheart]

hhhmm, if that's so then why aren't a lot of people crashing their cars deliberately because of crash tests? I would think it's just the fear of manufacturers of their products not living up to their hype. That's just me BTW.

Show me a few youtube videos of people testing/crashing cars in their neighborhoods, then send requests out to the auto makers for donated vehicles to random individuals to repeat, but in a more 'standardized' way. At the same time, let's have a link to the knife equivalent of the NHTSA or IIHS-HLDI. Or perhaps we can discuss what vehicle warranties, not insurance, will replace your car in the event of a crash, particularly a deliberate one. And maybe then we can get into the cost of replacing a vehicle versus replacing a knife. This is not a valid comparison.

 

[nidhoggr]

hhhmm, if that's so then why aren't a lot of people crashing their cars deliberately because of crash tests? I would think it's just the fear of manufacturers of their products not living up to their hype. That's just me BTW.

As yet, no manufacturers have "faced off" in a public demo of toughness. Yet plenty of them make the most hard use knives in the world. Doing a competition could bring plenty of animosity and there's plenty of drama to go around already.

Crashing your car means that you're probably in it, and if you're hitting something hard enough to "test" how safe the car is you're probably hitting something that 1) may not belong to you, 2)potentially exensive. Breaking a production knife that costs under $200 carries a lot less risk. The cheapest cars on the dealers' lot costs around $10k, I don't think too many people can afford to throw away that much money.

 

[rkhndjr]

No offense, but this whole thing seems rather crazy to me. If I want to split a piece of wood I'll use my axe. The damaging of a good knife by these "tests" is abusive and serves no purpose other than to those who would use their knives in the same manner. How many knife carriers ever use them for extremely hard use?