Vinegar Hamon Question

Garrett Schmidt

Garrett Schmidt

Joined
May 17, 2006
Messages
450
I'm going to try the vinegar etch method on a blade of 1095. Normally, I attach my handle scales after final finish of the blade and then rough and finish the handles and the tang at the same time. Another words, the exposed tang doesn't get the final finish until the handle scales do too. With this knife, I want to use neoprene handle material attached with super glue and flared tube pins. The problem is that the exposed tang will get ground some along with the handle scales and then they wouldn't match the rest of the blade with the etch. OK, I am thinking I only have two options:
1. Sand the handles and exposed tang along with the spine of the blade after etch so the that only the blade ricasso area will show an etch. The spine and exposed tang would have a different finish. (this might look cool as a dual finish)
OR
2. Wait until the handles are glued on to do the etch and dunk the whole blade including handles in the vinegar and hope that the etch doesn't mess up the super glue bond. (not really wanting to do this)

Are there any other options you all can think of. Thanks.

Garrett
 
Garrett Schmidt said:
2. Wait until the handles are glued on to do the etch and dunk the whole blade including handles in the vinegar and hope that the etch doesn't mess up the super glue bond. (not really wanting to do this)
Click to expand...

I think that's the best bet. Just make sure you test with a scrap of the same steel and handle material to be sure the vinegar doesn't eat your glue.
 
garrett, i put neoprene on almost all of my knives and a few i put in vinegar after dabbing yellow mustard on and letting it dry. you just have to make sure to have the handles glued on good and not have any gaps. the best way to check this is to pull on the neoprene gently as if you were going to try and peel it off.
if there are any unglued gaps they will show up. just put some superglue on these spots and work the neoprene back and forth quickly and then apply pressure to seal the gap. once you have gone completely around the handle making sure there arent any gaps, then you can submerge the whole blade in vinegar.
 
Thanks for the tip, richard j. Do you prefer superglue or epoxy?
How do you guys finish your neoprene? I bought a couple sets of scales the last time I ordered from TKS but haven't used them yet. Is there any practical way to put a checkered or similar texture on them, or is it best to just rough-finish them to 300 grit or so?
 
i have a set of small scotchbrite wheels (the very bottom picture http://mysite.verizon.net/ress6fq6/id22.html) that i finish my neoprene with. they get rid of any lines and leave a nice smooth finish that over time and with use will shine up but not be slick. if you google these numbers, you can find the wheels at an ace hardware store for around $20. each. 051144 / 80678 120 combi-s red combination wheel
048001 / 05974 A-MEDIUM cpfb-s gold wheel
 
For neoprene handles, I like the black rubber bonding epoxy. I believe K&G still sells it (as well as many other places). An alternate is the sealer you install a windshield gasket with. Super glue is not intended to bond steel to anything very well. It also does not bond rubber well either.
Stacy
 
stacy, i have quite a few knives that are at least 16 years old with neoprene slabs glued on using superglue. i had to replace one side that i messed up once. i cut and peeled the rubber off and the glue was still stuck good to the handle. i had to scrape and chisel off the glue. if you prepare the steel and neoprene well, it sticks just fine. i have made dozens of knives with neoprene handles that are just as old and they are still being used by customers.
 
Richard,
I sort of knew when i made that post that someone would say, "I did it and it worked for me." . :foot: Yes, you can get cyanoacrylic resin to work, but there may be better alternatives.:)

With the proper prep ,super glue will stick to an amazing amount of things. The problems arise in the function and use of the bond. Cyanoacrylic resin is not generally made to bond to some surfaces well. Steel and rubber are two (there are special CA's made for these,BTW). The main failure situations in super glue are separation due to flexing, and degradation due to moisture or heat. On a handle the edge of the glue joint can slowly break down due to humidity/moisture exposure. In grinding the scales and tang to shape, heat can break down the glue joint at the edge of the tang. Add to this the fact that a neoprene handle has a certain amount of flex at the edge (as compared to Micarta) the joint may peel back a bit at the edge. If there is tension from bolts/rivets in the center of the neoprene, it can make the edge lift a bit,too. Sometimes it is barely perceptible, sometimes a real problem.

The epoxies and bonding glues made for rubber are specifically made to flex in use ,and are generally completely waterproof.

I was just stating my solution for his problem, not the only way it could be done.
FWIW, I have repaired many handles where a scale has popped off after a couple years. It was often superglued on originally.
Stacy
 
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