Vintage Celluloid Scale Loose - Advice Needed

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Hi, all!

I recently acquired a mid 1930s vintage Hammer brand Cattle knife. It's 3-1/4 inches long closed and features celluloid scales a clip main blade, a spey blade, and a very nice punch/reamer. Unfortunately, one of the scales is loose on one corner. I'd like to carry and use this guy (have been doing so for a few days), but I know that sooner or later the scale is going to snag on something and break or come completely loose.

What are some options for re-affixing the scale? There are no visible pins, so I assume they are attached with some kind of adhesive.

THANK YOU!

Here are the original pics from the big auction site in case anyone wants to see it.

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I could be mistaken, but from your pictures, I think that knife is made with shell construction. If so, the bolsters and scales are all one piece of metal, clipped to the liners at the ends. The celluloid part is a thin sheet covering.

If the celluloid is loose, I suppose you could put a little thin epoxy under it, but know that cell often gets brittle, shrinks, and outgasses as it ages. I don't know if glue might interact chemically with the celluloid, so you might think about replacing it with something more stable.

If the whole metal side of the scale is loose, there may be a way to tighten it by adjusting the clips, I'm not sure.
 
The celluloid sheet is folded around the shell handle. I would probably peel it off and intend to paint the shell handles one day. The good thing about the thin sheet of celluloid is that there isn't enough of it to release much nitric acid when it breaks down, which makes removal less urgent.
 
Hi, all!

I recently acquired a mid 1930s vintage Hammer brand Cattle knife. It's 3-1/4 inches long closed and features celluloid scales a clip main blade, a spey blade, and a very nice punch/reamer. Unfortunately, one of the scales is loose on one corner. I'd like to carry and use this guy (have been doing so for a few days), but I know that sooner or later the scale is going to snag on something and break or come completely loose.

What are some options for re-affixing the scale? There are no visible pins, so I assume they are attached with some kind of adhesive.

THANK YOU!

Here are the original pics from the big auction site in case anyone wants to see it.

s-l1600.jpg

s-l1600.jpg

s-l1600.jpg

s-l1600.jpg
You could carefully warm up the plastic with a heat gun carefully not getting it to hot to where it will melt and use some super glue or epoxy clamping it into place - celluloid is a thermoplastic therefore ~ it can me moved with heat to its original position

Celluloid is a thermoplastic, that is, a plastic which can be reshaped by heat. This gave manufacturers the ability to mold and shape the material in many ways, to stamp it, stretch it, carve it and pierce it. It also could be dyed throughout, unlike many other new materials which could only be colored on the surface.


Note: ~ Also be careful that it is not over-clamped or overheated for you can smash it like bubble gum flattening it like Gum under you're Shoe - so use Precaution
I would also recommend using electrical tape instead of any kind of stiff clamping tool - the tape will form to the natural contour of the handle without smashing or distorting it in anyway - good luck on you're project -
 
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Thats a pre-war Imperial shell handle knife, 1938-41, and as such there wouldn't be any pins. Most Imperials were stamped shell construction wrapped with a sheet of celluloid. Once its damaged there isn't much you can do that won't make it worse. If one of the ends is curling that may be a sign that its starting to break down as celluloid will do.
Don't try to use heat, that sheet celluloid is quite flammable.....
 
From the pictures, it is Imperial Shell Construction. If the date range of 1938 to 1941 given by A Arathol is correct (probably is) the shell construction makes sense, as by that time Imperial-Schrade had bought NYKC and their Hammer Brand.

DO NOT use heat on it. As A Arathol mentioned, celluloid - especially sheet celluloid, is highly flammable.
Judging by the corrosion on the pile side of the main and secondaries, combined with the shrinkage, it is outgassing on that side. 😢
The "good news" is you can remove the celluloid easily, remove any old adhesive, and paint between the covers using Testers enamel model paint, or glue on some canvas, thin leather, or some other material, using an Automotive/Marne upholstery or trim glue, contact cement, or automotive not foam double sided tape.

Samples of wood veneer might be too thick, plus the "bolster-cover" joint on shell knives is usually somewhat rounded, rather than square corners, which would make fitting a veneer without any gaps, "difficult" at best.

Those blades have a lot of life left. They don't appear to have been sharpened enough over the years to lose a noticable amount of blade.
If it were mine, I'd take off the celluloid, and either leave it bare, paint between the bolsters, or glue some denim from a wore out pair of jeans, or get another leather square for waxing archery bowstrings, and cut it up for leather covers. (I need the bowstring leather square I have to wax my bowstrings.)
 
you can remove the celluloid easily, remove any old adhesive, and paint between the covers using Testers enamel model paint, or glue on some canvas, thin leather, or some other material, using an Automotive/Marne upholstery or trim glue, contact cement, or automotive not foam double sided tape.
I have had some success re-covering shell construction knives using laptop stickers and permanent self-adhesive vinyl lettering material (you can get it at the craft store).

The stickers work well if you can tuck the edges into the gap between the stamped metal handles and the liners. The vinyl lettering sheets are the best, because even if you can’t tuck the edges in, it will stick very well. It will peel off cleanly if you don’t like it, but you have to work at it a bit to get it off.

I have carried the light green one around some in my pocket with my keys and such, and it shows no sign of coming loose:

(The Imperial serpentine jack looks a little rough because I tried to cut out the vinyl around the fake shield and pins and did a lousy job. As with any type of adhesive, I usually wind up wearing more of it than I manage to apply to the intended surface :rolleyes:)
 
You can use heat on celluloid, such as from a hair drier, but not heat from an open flame such as a propane torch. Any flame will INSTANTLY ignite celluloid. The problem with heating the handles to repair them is that if the original adhesive is prone to melting from heat you might wind up with the entire handle covering falling off.

Just Tom. those knives look fantastic! What a great idea!

Eric
 
Those look great. I never thought of laptop decals or the vinyl letter materials. Makes me wonder if skateboard deck tape would work, or do you think that would be too rough on the hands?
Thanks :D
I imagine skateboard deck tape may catch on the material inside of your pocket and make it difficult to get out.
Just Tom. those knives look fantastic! What a great idea!
Thanks!
 
The celluloid sheet is folded around the shell handle. I would probably peel it off and intend to paint the shell handles one day. The good thing about the thin sheet of celluloid is that there isn't enough of it to release much nitric acid when it breaks down, which makes removal less urgent.

Thank you!
 
You could carefully warm up the plastic with a heat gun carefully not getting it to hot to where it will melt and use some super glue or epoxy clamping it into place - celluloid is a thermoplastic therefore ~ it can me moved with heat to its original position

Celluloid is a thermoplastic, that is, a plastic which can be reshaped by heat. This gave manufacturers the ability to mold and shape the material in many ways, to stamp it, stretch it, carve it and pierce it. It also could be dyed throughout, unlike many other new materials which could only be colored on the surface.


Note: ~ Also be careful that it is not over-clamped or overheated for you can smash it like bubble gum flattening it like Gum under you're Shoe - so use Precaution
I would also recommend using electrical tape instead of any kind of stiff clamping tool - the tape will form to the natural contour of the handle without smashing or distorting it in anyway - good luck on you're project -

Thank you!
 
Thats a pre-war Imperial shell handle knife, 1938-41, and as such there wouldn't be any pins. Most Imperials were stamped shell construction wrapped with a sheet of celluloid. Once its damaged there isn't much you can do that won't make it worse. If one of the ends is curling that may be a sign that its starting to break down as celluloid will do.
Don't try to use heat, that sheet celluloid is quite flammable.....

Any recommendation other than heating it?
 
From the pictures, it is Imperial Shell Construction. If the date range of 1938 to 1941 given by A Arathol is correct (probably is) the shell construction makes sense, as by that time Imperial-Schrade had bought NYKC and their Hammer Brand.

DO NOT use heat on it. As A Arathol mentioned, celluloid - especially sheet celluloid, is highly flammable.
Judging by the corrosion on the pile side of the main and secondaries, combined with the shrinkage, it is outgassing on that side. 😢
The "good news" is you can remove the celluloid easily, remove any old adhesive, and paint between the covers using Testers enamel model paint, or glue on some canvas, thin leather, or some other material, using an Automotive/Marne upholstery or trim glue, contact cement, or automotive not foam double sided tape.

Samples of wood veneer might be too thick, plus the "bolster-cover" joint on shell knives is usually somewhat rounded, rather than square corners, which would make fitting a veneer without any gaps, "difficult" at best.

Those blades have a lot of life left. They don't appear to have been sharpened enough over the years to lose a noticable amount of blade.
If it were mine, I'd take off the celluloid, and either leave it bare, paint between the bolsters, or glue some denim from a wore out pair of jeans, or get another leather square for waxing archery bowstrings, and cut it up for leather covers. (I need the bowstring leather square I have to wax my bowstrings.)

Thank you! That sounds like a reasonable plan.

I had read about the one piece metal covers in the past, but I've never held one in my hands. I didn't realize I had one until you and the others called it to my attention.
 
I have had some success re-covering shell construction knives using laptop stickers and permanent self-adhesive vinyl lettering material (you can get it at the craft store).

The stickers work well if you can tuck the edges into the gap between the stamped metal handles and the liners. The vinyl lettering sheets are the best, because even if you can’t tuck the edges in, it will stick very well. It will peel off cleanly if you don’t like it, but you have to work at it a bit to get it off.

I have carried the light green one around some in my pocket with my keys and such, and it shows no sign of coming loose:

(The Imperial serpentine jack looks a little rough because I tried to cut out the vinyl around the fake shield and pins and did a lousy job. As with any type of adhesive, I usually wind up wearing more of it than I manage to apply to the intended surface :rolleyes:)

Those look nice!

Maybe I'll see if any of the body shops near me have scraps from when they do a custom wrap on a vehicle.
 
Based on what the group has suggested so far, saving the original laminate is unlikely. While I consider the final plan, I'll continue to carry and use it, but not worry if the celluloid continues to peel or comes off completely.
 
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