Vote for a hammer.

Get the biggest hammer possible, I run a 330 Beche, almost the same as a 3-B Nazel. For years I had a 500# little giant and that thing was awesome. I made 10,000 billets on that thing. I bought a 1000# Chambersberg from Sid last year, still have to figure out how to get it here. I also have a 150# steam utility hammer that I’ve used extensively. All of the hammers I’ve used at times seem under powered.

Watching that video makes me think a bigger hammer would be better. I’m also surprised that guy can’t keep anything square.

I also have great respect for Kentucky and his opinion so maybe I’m not the best guy to post on this subject. The more I forge, the lower my forge temps get, which always requires more force. I also forge more high alloy steels than most smiths.

Bigger is better.

Hoss
No your right. I’m just commenting on his want of a small hammer to go with his press for bladesmithing and lack of space for a big hammer..
I’m very much a bigger hammer is better kind of guy.
In fact the only constant with buying hammers is you’ll always want a bigger one..
 
I’d love to have gotten to work on your #500 LG. Rare bird these days. I love the big mechanical hammers say 250 and up. We need and plan to buy a big self contained hammer in the next year or so. You can’t beat them for working with top tooling. Just so much room and power
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I’ll be right up front and honest. I’m just an old blacksmith who plays at being a bladesmith sometimes:D
 
I'm late to the party, however, I'll chime in here.

Of the list, definitely drop the few extra (relatively) bucks for the 55 Anyang. It'll forge circles around the other options, and while I am a big fan of the 33lb Anyang, and the KZ-75, they're both less suitable for a "I only have one hammer and I want to make damascus more than a couple times a year" shop. Not that you can't make plenty of steel on either, but the marginal extra money, puts you in the territory of not working the hammer at top capacity.

The 33lb Anyang is the sweetest blade forging hammer I've ever run, but it's limited for anything other than small billets, and it won't handle drawing duty on larger ones even with a press. Ken's 75lber will, if it's tuned way up, but you'll need the difference in cost to cover a suitable compressor. It will run well on a 5hp *industrial* dual stage, but will be starving for air on absolutely anything you can buy new at a local store for less than $2k. That includes any modern "Ingersoll-Rand" comps sold at Northern, etc. They're not the same.

I haven't specifically used a 55lb Anyang, wasn't even aware of them, but if the 88lb'ers I've used are any indication, it'll be a lot more powerful than a 75lb utility. The 88's are on par with the premium 150lb utilities (Pheonix, Ironkiss), and twice the hammer as a 155 big blu, plus it'll run balls out, non-stop, regardless of the air source.

Now, I have had numerous utility hammers and love them, wouldn't hesitate to have more, but I've got plenty of air already, and would still always choose a self-contained over a utility when the money is roughly the same. Buying a new utility only makes sense if you've already got the air frankly, and preferably, when there's a good deal to be had, like, when the KZ-75 was brand new, and significantly cheaper.

The 33lb Anyang is exceptional as a 2nd or 3rd hammer you leave crowned dies on to only forge blades on, however, a good tire hammer, or 50lb little giant, works almost as well once you've gotten comfortable, and don't feel compelled to be gingerly with the throttle. I'd have a VERY hard time buying a 33lb Anyang for retail, except in the case where I had someone forging blades only, day in, day out, all day, but it's just not quite enough machine for doing anything but small damascus stacks, still, I'd rate it at twice the tup weight, compared to a normal mechanical (excluding the industrial mechanicals, like the Beudrys, Bradleys, etc), or modern utility hammers.
 
Thanks, man. I was afraid of that about the KZ 75. Ken says it can use any old comressor, but I suspected that was not the case it you wanted to run it hard. My current billets start off at 1 to 1.5 wide x 3tall x 6 long. Would those be considered small in your world or more like medium? BTW, If I had the money, I would buy the 110 Say Mak, but at$12-13K, it has gone up like $4K in the last 8 or so years, so it now costs what the comparable Kuhn did in say 2009=10. Of course, that Kuhn is now like $18k or more. :eek:
I'm late to the party, however, I'll chime in here.

Of the list, definitely drop the few extra (relatively) bucks for the 55 Anyang. It'll forge circles around the other options, and while I am a big fan of the 33lb Anyang, and the KZ-75, they're both less suitable for a "I only have one hammer and I want to make damascus more than a couple times a year" shop. Not that you can't make plenty of steel on either, but the marginal extra money, puts you in the territory of not working the hammer at top capacity.

The 33lb Anyang is the sweetest blade forging hammer I've ever run, but it's limited for anything other than small billets, and it won't handle drawing duty on larger ones even with a press. Ken's 75lber will, if it's tuned way up, but you'll need the difference in cost to cover a suitable compressor. It will run well on a 5hp *industrial* dual stage, but will be starving for air on absolutely anything you can buy new at a local store for less than $2k. That includes any modern "Ingersoll-Rand" comps sold at Northern, etc. They're not the same.

I haven't specifically used a 55lb Anyang, wasn't even aware of them, but if the 88lb'ers I've used are any indication, it'll be a lot more powerful than a 75lb utility. The 88's are on par with the premium 150lb utilities (Pheonix, Ironkiss), and twice the hammer as a 155 big blu, plus it'll run balls out, non-stop, regardless of the air source.

Now, I have had numerous utility hammers and love them, wouldn't hesitate to have more, but I've got plenty of air already, and would still always choose a self-contained over a utility when the money is roughly the same. Buying a new utility only makes sense if you've already got the air frankly, and preferably, when there's a good deal to be had, like, when the KZ-75 was brand new, and significantly cheaper.

The 33lb Anyang is exceptional as a 2nd or 3rd hammer you leave crowned dies on to only forge blades on, however, a good tire hammer, or 50lb little giant, works almost as well once you've gotten comfortable, and don't feel compelled to be gingerly with the throttle. I'd have a VERY hard time buying a 33lb Anyang for retail, except in the case where I had someone forging blades only, day in, day out, all day, but it's just not quite enough machine for doing anything but small damascus stacks, still, I'd rate it at twice the tup weight, compared to a normal mechanical (excluding the industrial mechanicals, like the Beudrys, Bradleys, etc), or modern utility hammers.
 
I’m really wanting the 120# Anyang . We use a lot of top tooling so really need the head space
 
Thanks, man. I was afraid of that about the KZ 75. Ken says it can use any old comressor, but I suspected that was not the case it you wanted to run it hard. My current billets start off at 1 to 1.5 wide x 3tall x 6 long. Would those be considered small in your world or more like medium? BTW, If I had the money, I would buy the 110 Say Mak, but at$12-13K, it has gone up like $4K in the last 8 or so years, so it now costs what the comparable Kuhn did in say 2009=10. Of course, that Kuhn is now like $18k or more. :eek:


Sorry for the late reply, been real busy lately.

So Ken's hammer could easily handle billets that size, they're "small" to me (and tiny to Devin), but that's relative, and I'd consider them "medium" to most, however, you'd need a real compressor, and you'd need to crank the PSI and stroke length up beyond what Ken recommends for general forging. Ken's hammers offer exceptional (the best maybe?) control with the steam-hammer style linkages, and good air/power ratios for general ornamental work, but he hasn't designed them for heavy drawing. Bear in mind I used an original style (Ken's 75 is based on the second version C-frame style Bull hammer) 75lb Bull hammer for years making damascus as my only hammer, but that one was actually just shy of 100lb actual Tup weight without the dies, and Trozac's original control scheme setup could handle being run at very high PSI (I ran mine at 150 PSI and would constantly out-run a real industrial Ingersol T-30 dual stage 5hp), and adjusted to very long stroke length (sacrificing BPM, but gaining HUGE in power), which made it run like a much heavier hammer and draw insanely well for it's size. It had a longer overall stroke also, which is highly helpful when tuning to weld taller billets.

Ken's hammer can sip air and do really great fine work, and hit hard when tuned up, but it definitely needs a minimum dual stage 5hp 80gal industrial that can pump 15 CFM or so MINIMUM to run like that. My friend has one, and has had to upgrade compressors a couple of times since, because he made the mistake of thinking he could get by with less. Yes, in a light use scenario you could, but he's a full time blacksmith and works a lot of bigger stock than what you'll see Ken or others working with these hammers in videos.

Figure a 1.5x3xwhatever long billet is essentially like working 2.5"+ diameter (just to throw out a number) round bar, or worse, then compare that to examples you see. Bear in mind also, that smiths working with mild or wrought, work at welding heats continually also, so whatever work you see on smaller stock, just doesn't really compare.


All that said, it's a great hammer, I'd still like to buy one, although I wish I had gotten one when they were first offered and cheaper, and I've already got 45 or so CFM of air.

Personally if I was buying new, I'd buy a high frame Anyang 88 (it's the sweet spot for power vs/control IMO, it's not so heavy that you have to really worry about over-working a blade, but it'll do big work easily, I'd compare it to any 150-200lb Little Giant style mechanical). My old friend Zoe Crist made all his damascus with an older 88lb Striker (shittier version of the anyang from the same factory), and a press for a very long time. Eventually he added a rolling mill and a larger press, but never felt the need for a larger hammer was justified.



Personally, I love power hammers, so much so that I rarely use a press, except for a few patterns, but that's not to say it's wise of me. I'll always be able to rationalize a larger hammer, but if I had to pick *one*, especially for a single hammer, buy once, buying new, scenario, the high-frame (or whatever they call the longer stroke length one) Anyang 88, is the easy choice. Honestly, it's a smarter choice even than a Nazel or Chambersburg if one could be had for the same money, since most wont have the ability, equipment, or inclination to handle refurb and repairs. The Anyangs are well supported, and have really had a lot of the short-comings and kinks worked out in the last decade by Anyang USA. Now me personally, I'm not likely to ever buy new, and don't mind (enjoy) working on machinery, so that makes it a completely different choice.
 
The KZ hammers, especially his 100 pounder are just super tools for blacksmith work. You can cut out flower pedals with one or drive a punch through a 2” block of hc steel to make axes.
I personally consider them more of a tooling blacksmith type hammer. I think they have the best fine control available..
 
If I were buying a new air hamer today it'd be a Anyang, 120 or 165 lb. But I do love my two 100 lb Little Giants. I remember Tom Clark's 110lb hammers at 7k delivered. Best deal out there, but long gone.
 
The Say Mak hammers are still available in the US from what I can tell. They just cost like $13K+ for single phase. The Sahinlers are no longer imported, at least according to Pieh Tool. The Say Mak and the Iron Kiss hammers were screaming deals back in the day, as was the little 33 pound Anyang.
If I were buying a new air hamer today it'd be a Anyang, 120 or 165 lb. But I do love my two 100 lb Little Giants. I remember Tom Clark's 110lb hammers at 7k delivered. Best deal out there, but long gone.
 
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