VSM ceramics, color me impressed

[HallHandmade]

I've been using these long enough that I have grown to like them quite a bit, but I recently stepped up to 36 grit now that I'm comfortable with my grinding, and the VSM 36 has been just as impressive as (if not more so than) the 50-100 grit VSM I've been using previously. The overall behavior seems very similar between grits.

I continue to be highly impressed with the VSM belts for performance vs. cost.

This is an XK760X VSM 36g ceramic. I used it to grind the Santoku blade shown below from a pre-hardened full thickness blank at 5/32", and it still looks almost new.

This is with about 1.5hrs of non stop grinding on CTS-XHP @ 61rc! I went from full thickness (profile only, no rough grind before HT) to full flat ground with full distal taper and zero edge.

I do grind with a light touch and slightly different style than most, but that is just plain impressive.

The wear shown also includes some light profiling and re-fracturing the abrasive while grinding a tang slightly shorter on another blade.

(this is after finishing just fyi)

This is the VSM next to a value ceramic with approximately the same amount of use. I ground two slightly smaller blades, with it, but the overall material removal and time spent was very similar.

Not exactly scientific, but the belt on the right has been a typical result for me with value belts with this much use.

The VSM and some of the other quality ceramic belts have a somewhat glossy looking binder, whereas the cheaper standard or value belts seem to have a more chalky binder, both in appearance and wear.

My assumption so far (which may be totally incorrect) is that the value belts have a lot more filler in the binder resin, to try and be more cost effective. They tend to be less flexible, more crumbly, shed grit faster, and the binder itself wears faster.

The binder on the VSM is more glossy and plastic, so I suspect it uses more resin with less filler to give it more flexibility and toughness. Once again, just guesses, but guesses from experience with custom filled resins.

 

[AVigil]

I have been using the VSM for several months now and they really are a nice belt and have a great price.

I use the 36 a lot and they last a good long time...right up there with the Blaze for me.

 

[i4Marc]

Do you have links or information about where these belts can be found? I don't see the XK760X on their website.

 

[HallHandmade]

Tru-Grit sells them.

Evidently the "K" in the model number stands for knife, these are supposed to be specially cut for knifemakers so that they run more true, and they have "reduced bump" joint, at least on the 36 grit.

I haven't had particularly bad luck with the non "K" belts, but I have gotten a couple that were a bit more wobbly than others.

These 36 grit "K" belts do run very true so far, I would say above average for 36 grit belts I've tried.


I have used most every popular high quality roughing belt, Blaze, 3m and Norton structured, klingspor.

They are all very good and I generally have nothing bad to say about any of them. They all work well in slightly different ways.

The VSM seem to be the best overall balance for me, which is why I like them.

I also like the new 3m Cubitron II 947a that everyone is raving about, but the problem with those for me, is that the abrasive is so tough that my grinding style is unable to refracture it.

I end up having to break the surface with a piece of carbide every few minutes, because all the grains just stay in place and end up getting burnished over on the tips... Then it just turns into a knife blade heater instead of a sanding belt.

I still do buy the Cubitron II belts though. So far they are my absolute favorite when grinding hardened stock with a fresh belt. When the belt starts to wear, my favor quickly tilts towards the VSM.

 

[KCGGBC]

I had been debating these very belts for my next order. You may have sold me.

Have you noticed and residue from the backing being left on the platen(assuming you're using a platen of course)?

 

[Adam Buttry]

Ian, have you used the 3M Cubitron ll belts (984F)? They're currently my preference and I'm just wondering how the VSM ceramics compare. The VSM's are certainly more cost friendly, so regardless, I may have to pick up a few to try out.

 

[HallHandmade]

I had been debating these very belts for my next order. You may have sold me.

Have you noticed and residue from the backing being left on the platen(assuming you're using a platen of course)?

If you're on it for some time where everything gets really warm, you can get some deposits, but not as bad as the blaze. Most of the time it has been no problem for me.

Ian, have you used the 3M Cubitron ll belts (984F)? They're currently my preference and I'm just wondering how the VSM ceramics compare. The VSM's are certainly more cost friendly, so regardless, I may have to pick up a few to try out.

I'm using the Cubitron II 947a, from what I was told they just came out very recently. They have a new style of abrasive grain from what I understand. They are marked 40+, 60+, 120+, at least the ones I've used.

Some folks I've spoken with equate them almost with witchcraft, being so impressed with the performance.

So far I really like them, but with my light touch grinding style, they just don't work well at all unless they're new. Eventually there will be so many burnished points that the work just slides right over the top, and even going to town with a lump of solid carbide can't bring them back.

 

[Frank Niro]

Well hello !!! These may be the ones for me ! I have such a very light touch that I have to keep reminding myself to press harder. I just placed a large order for belts and am thinking I may have ordered a few VSMs to try. I certainly will in the future. Thank you for this, Ian. Frank

 

[Rhinoknives1]

Well hello !!! These may be the ones for me ! I have such a very light touch that I have to keep reminding myself to press harder. I just placed a large order for belts and am thinking I may have ordered a few VSMs to try. I certainly will in the future. Thank you for this, Ian. Frank

Frank,
I mentioned these VSM in a thread over at KDs about 2 years ago. I get them from www.trugrit.com
They are still the best value to performance ceramic belt I have found.

I like those Cubriton II 947 and for the middle cost belts they are excellent. That VSM 36 grit belt is $5.00 and change a piece and I do all of my bevel grinding after HT. The 120 grit is like $3.00 for a top preforming ceramic belt.

I have done my bevel grinding with the 36 & 60 VSM for one or two blades per belt and then they go to profiling & tang tapering. At this low cost I have liked being able to use them when they are fresh and not producing heat on my HTed blades.

They are both great belts, For you guys on a tight budget or if you do all of your bevel grinding post HT, Check out the VSM.

 

[Marko3]

I have been using the VSM for a while now. I saw a post from Lawrence over on KD and gave them a shot. Most often they run true. But past few orders I would get a few 120 grit belts that were not true. But for the most part I think they are a decent belt. I am not a hard pusher on the belt either so I tend to waste the Blaze belts.

 

[NickWheeler]

Great post, thank you Ian!

I have had my eye on them after reading a post Laurence made, but I haven't had to make a belt order for awhile. I'll definitely give these a try.

Thanks guys.

 

[Joe Watson]

I'm assuming you're working on a flat platen?

I recently bought almost $300 of VSMs in 60 grit, both the economy and regular grade(I personally noticed no performance difference between the two) and they did not pan out for me. Life wise, I was getting around one blade per belt, or slightly less, on 3/16" thick CPM154 at 61Rc. They also ran with noticeably more drag than the Cubitrons, Norton Hoggers or Blaze belts. I'd never bogged down my grinder with any other belt than the VSM, heat buildup was much faster as well.

The cheap price was certainly enticing, but it turned out to be much more expensive in use compared to Cubitrons.

They did run very straight and true, though. I'll give 'em that! They did work fine on micarta, g10 and kydex as well.

Any thoughts from you guys that like them?

 

[Josh Mason]

I like VSM belts. Ray Laconico turned me on to them, and I don't think I'm going to turn back. They seem to like water too. I keep a spray bottle hanging off my rest, and and spray them down after every pass or so. All the grit stays put, and they seem to last a really long time for the price. I'll take one off my belt rack that I know I've ground a couple small knives with, but they just look and feel fresh.

I've ordered the "Bluefire" belts shortly before my VSM order, and was pretty disappointed in those. Crumbly, not very long lasting, and felt a bit "harder" against the platen. Cant really describe that....lol. I'm pretty sure the ceramic VSM belts are a comparable price to those, maybe cheaper.

Not as good as a blaze, and better than any red ceramic or blue zirc belt out there. That's about the long and short of it for me.

 

[Rhinoknives1]

I'm assuming you're working on a flat platen?

I recently bought almost $300 of VSMs in 60 grit, both the economy and regular grade(I personally noticed no performance difference between the two) and they did not pan out for me. Life wise, I was getting around one blade per belt, or slightly less, on 3/16" thick CPM154 at 61Rc. They also ran with noticeably more drag than the Cubitrons, Norton Hoggers or Blaze belts. I'd never bogged down my grinder with any other belt than the VSM, heat buildup was much faster as well.

The cheap price was certainly enticing, but it turned out to be much more expensive in use compared to Cubitrons.

They did run very straight and true, though. I'll give 'em that! They did work fine on micarta, g10 and kydex as well.

Any thoughts from you guys that like them?

I really don't have any comments, other than those are the opposite of my experience making FFG's. i also grind hard on CPM-154 on Hted blades at RC 60 and I don't think one RC point would make any real difference.

We all find one product or another that seems to work the best for us.

 

[Adam Buttry]

Ian, I've never heard of the 947A Cubitron ll belts, until reading this thread.

So far I really like them, but with my light touch grinding style, they just don't work well at all unless they're new. Eventually there will be so many burnished points that the work just slides right over the top, and even going to town with a lump of solid carbide can't bring them back.

It sounds like the 947A's definitely aren't for me then, because I've never had that happen with the 984F's. On smaller blades, they're good for at least a couple of knives and will profile many more after that. They run cool, can be bathed in water, and they've never glazed or burnished over on me. I use a fairly light touch as well. I more or less have to because I do all my bevel grinding post HT. Light pass, dunk, light pass, dunk, etc.

I recently bought almost $300 of VSMs in 60 grit, both the economy and regular grade(I personally noticed no performance difference between the two) and they did not pan out for me. Life wise, I was getting around one blade per belt, or slightly less, on 3/16" thick CPM154 at 61Rc. They also ran with noticeably more drag than the Cubitrons, Norton Hoggers or Blaze belts. I'd never bogged down my grinder with any other belt than the VSM, heat buildup was much faster as well.

The cheap price was certainly enticing, but it turned out to be much more expensive in use compared to Cubitrons.

Joe, your experience with the VSM's is what worries me about even trying them. The 984F's have spoiled me and I'm very leery to even try another ceramic belt now that I've settled on those. I have to admit, the price difference is enticing though.

I've ordered the "Bluefire" belts shortly before my VSM order, and was pretty disappointed in those.

I don't use those to hog metal, but I love them in 120 and 220 grit after establishing my bevel with the 60 grit 984Fs.

I suppose everyone's preferences in belts will differ based on their application and grinding style. If you're lucky and manage to find what works for you, I say stick with it!