Waiting for @#*%$&'n Emerson Knives?!!!!!

K

kaisersose

Joined
Jan 27, 2000
Messages
10
I would really like to hear from anyone who has actually gone through the tedious process of trying to aquire an Emerson knife. I ordered 3 over 3 years ago and they're all over a year past the quoted delivery dates!! And now their excuses are even more lame than they've ever been. Have any of you out there actually gone through this process and aquired a knife from him?

[This message has been edited by kaisersose (edited 02-09-2000).]
 
Kaisersose,

Should you check the Emerson Forum you find the "Usual Suspects".

Sadly, you are in the majority of those who have ordered from Emerson.

As you and so many others have found out, that delivery dates are absolutely meaningless to Emerson. You can expect another 2-4 year wait. If what others have posted in here and other forums.

Your choices are simple.

1) Stick with your order till the bitter end.
Accept the excuses year after year.

2)Cancel your order, take the money and buy a better knife.

I guess the real question is, why do you want to give someone your hard earned money that treats you this way?

Just a thought.

Les
 
Originally posted by Les Robertson:
Kaisersose,

Should you check the Emerson Forum you find the "Usual Suspects".

Sadly, you are in the majority of those who have ordered from Emerson.

As you and so many others have found out, that delivery dates are absolutely meaningless to Emerson. You can expect another 2-4 year wait. If what others have posted in here and other forums.

Your choices are simple.

1) Stick with your order till the bitter end.
Accept the excuses year after year.

2)Cancel your order, take the money and buy a better knife.

I guess the real question is, why do you want to give someone your hard earned money that treats you this way?

Just a thought.

Les
Click to expand...
Have you actually tried to get anything from him?? And would you say that I've got to wait another 2-4 yrs in addition to the three years I've waited already?? Thanks... Tim


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Hi Tim,

I stopped doing business with Emerson over 5 years ago. As I like you tired of his consistent excuses.

As a custom knife professional I can not and will not tolerate the poor business practices that Emerson has consistently practiced over the last 6 years.

The only reason he continues to use these practices is because he is allowed to do so by the very customers who complain behind his back, but will not take him to task when face to face.

I understand that you feel that you entered into honorable agreement. It should be plain for all to see at this point that Emerson does not view his part of this agreement in the same light that the customers do.

I realize after waiting for 3 years, you want the knife you ordered. That it is difficult to realize that it may be another 2-4 years before you see your knife. Keeping your name on the list will be your choice.

I would re-direct you back to my previous posts and ask you review the simple choices.
If you continue to let Emerson push back the delivery time that he or his people (who represent him) promised you, and accept this. Then I would submit to you that, you no longer have the right to complain about the continous extentions of his delivery time any more.

Les
 
Tim,

Les certainly has hit the nail on the head.

If you must have an Emerson, either wait a very long time or, buy one already in circulation.

With so many custom makers offering knives of equal or better quality at similar prices (or even less) then Emerson and providing the service one expects when they make a purchase like this, I wonder why anyone would put up with the poor business practices and inflated prices of Emerson.

Sid
---
Knife dealer
 
I understand peoples concerns over delivery delays regarding their custom knife orders. Things really are being done to get back on track and get some knife orders filled. However, I do not understand Sid's comment about "inflated prices". The CQC6 was $475 for many years with it's base price being raised to $525 a year or two ago. The fact that people charge (and are willing to pay) 2-3x the price in the secondary market, has nothing to do with Emersons pricing. Maybe I am missing some part of the equasion. In all honesty, if someone can enlighten me, I would be most appreciative. I do want to have a grasp on all of our customers concerns and veiwpoints.

Take care,
Derek
 
Tim, as has already been stated, your problem is not new. Have you considered a better knife at a better price? Check out Les's website, he has some sweet knives there. JW Smith,Lightfoot,Elishewitz,etc.
John W. Smith is one of the best makers on the planet and is making less and less tactical knives to make art knives.Check them out.
If you have to have an Emerson, why not ask Les or another dealer to keep their eyes open for you?
I cannot give my money to someone whose business practices have no integrity.
Like fulfilling prior obligations before giving 100% to production knives and now production/customs.
For some reason when some get a big reputation they think they can act any way they want. And obviously by the volume of orders, they can. Just not from me.
------------------
Phil. 4:13
Dave
Wharton,NJ

I thought I was wrong once, but I was mistaken.

[This message has been edited by lifter4Him@aol.com (edited 02-10-2000).]
 
Derek,
I read Tim's "inflated prices" comment to mean aftermarket prices. If Mr. Emerson's organization wants to be a production manufacturer, that is great. I carry a prod. CQC7 and it is the most comfortable, easy to operate production knife I own. Your organization continues to take custom orders. You added more custom choices to your web site when you cannot even fill the existing orders. You started up a new semi-custom division that will certainly push existing delivery times even farther back. Worst of all, you continue to take custom orders. I have my doubts that you or Mr. Emerson can come out in these public forums (here or TF) and state that he, alone, will start kicking out 200-300 knives a year to keep up with custom order demands.

If you are going to be a production knife company, then be a produciton knife company. Emerson Knives makes an excellent production knife. On the business end, I am sure it has been highly profitable, so do what you do good. I would rather be told Mr. Emerson will not take any more custom orders than to be strung along year after year.

------------------
"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."
George Orwell
 
Derek -

As a member in loooong standing of the Emerson "waiting for delivery" club, I agree with the sentiments expressed here. Lifter is especially on target: Business integrity requires that you honor the commitments you've already made before taking on additional ones. The custom side of the house has told many people repeatedly that a knife would be delivered by a certain date, only to fail to do so. To stop taking orders if you can't manage the orders you have taken in the last five years would be the fair thing to do.

Pricing is not the issue at all, as there are other maker's whose knives command a premium as soon as they're made, and besides, Ernie charges the price as agreed upon when the order was placed.

But it is very galling to wait for years past the delivery date on a custom knife, and then learn that something called a semi-custom will be available and it's advent will delay further the order you're waiting on. Which also leads to my least favorite excuse: "We're making knives in batches, and now we're making cqc6s". How do you justify making a custom knife that was ordered after mine before mine because it is a less popular model? And on the subject of batches, at some point "batches" translates into "production" if you can only get the knife the way that batch is being made. Recent 6s are all beadblasted, but if mine was ordered with a satin finish, either I don't get it the way I ordered it, or I have to wait until a satin batch is made!

There's more, but the point of this thread clearly is that there is a very significant failure on the company's part to meet it's commitments, and nowhere is there a similar showing of how that failure is to be addressed. IMHO.
Semper Fi!
 
The amazing thing about all this is that there was a time when Ernie was begging for business. As some times happens in the knife world soap opera, makers get popular and it can get out of hand. I understand the frustration, but its a reality. I think the production and custom production thing is good in that it can allow for all those just finding out about Emerson knives to get on board and get a great knife. I think what has happened is beyond Ernies wildest dreams. I have seen this happen to other makers as well. The prices on the secondary market are outrageous, and Les should not be overly upset about this, as he has made a few bucks on the whole Emerson explosion. I concur with Derek-the price on a CQC6 has not changed in years. I doubt that any of those complaining have a huge amount of money invested, if I remember correctly its about a $25 deposit to get on "the list". I have worked my tail off to acquire the blades I have, and they were almost all out of the secondary market from "the usual suspects" in the knife business. Its kind of funny that I know of several knives that I had and let go that Les made a fortune off of. Hey, its become a business. Many of us are operators seeking good tactical gear, and we often ended up trading knives and equipment back and forth among ourselves, who knew that all those tough ugly "tacticals" would all of a sudden be "collectables". I do understand that Emerson is in a funny position in all this, and I think the best thing he could do is just say no more custom knife orders till he gets caught up. I think this all comes down to its hard to say no. I also think that the collectors out there have caused a problem with this coming down to a profit thing. Guys are screaming for their CQC6 that they can't live without, and get it, and turn around and sell it to a dealer for a $400-500 profit, and then the dealer doubles that. All of a sudden Ernie becomes the bad guy, because a couple people can't make far more money off that knife in about a minute, than Ernie ever did. Those are the people I could care less about. The ones I feel sorry for are the ones who want a blade that they like, need, and will appreciate as a fine piece of tactical equipment, and can't get because of the "profiteers" in this whole escapade. Just my 02 cents.

------------------
He who advances is sure of heaven-He who retreats of eternal damnation.
 
Nyeti,

First, your profile tells us nothing about you. How about introducing yourself.

Next, since you chose to single me out. Let us get some facts straight.

As you stated, quote "Its kind of funny that I know of several knives that I had and let go that Les made a fortune off of."

Exactly which knives were these and exactly how much of a "fortune" do you think I made off of these? My mark up on a Emerson knife is generally the same as the other knives I sell.

"Guys are screaming for their CQC6 that they can't live without, and get it, and turn
around and sell it to a dealer for a $400-500 profit, and then the dealer doubles that".

Ok, time for a math lesson:

CQC6 =$525 + $500 + $1,025.00 X 2= $2,050.00

Hey, if you got someone who will pay me $2,000 for a standard CQC6 please have them see me. Nyeti, you might want to check that math again.

Nyeti, let me tell you for the record that I have not purchased a knife directly from Emerson in well over 5 years. This decision was made by me because of Emerson's poor business practices. I was the first dealer to do this. I think you would agree that this would go against the profiteer motive.

Also, for the record with every Emerson knife I sell I tell people the following:

1) This knife is not worth the money you are paying for it.

2) Their are superior knives for substantially less money.

3) Because of the volitility of the Emerson custom knife market and his countined poor business practices that custom knives from Emerson are THE ONLY CUSTOM KNIFE I SELL THAT I WILL NOT TAKE BACK IN TRADE. This is also stated on my web site.

4)With this in mind, should you choose to purchase this knife you are doing so because you want one of these knives, not becuase as the price you are paying would indicate it is a superior knife.

Now Nyeti, does this sound like something a "profiteer" would tell perspective clients?
I think not. I do this because as a custom knife professional I feel an obligation to my clients to tell them the truth.

Nyeti further wrote:

Quote "All of a sudden Ernie becomes the bad guy, because a couple people can't make far more money off that knife in about a minute, than Ernie ever did. Those are the people I could care less about. The ones I feel sorry for are the ones who want a blade that they like, need, and will appreciate as a fine piece of tactical equipment, and can't get because of the "profiteers" in this whole escapade".

Nyeti, Emerson is not the bad guy because of his customers. He is the bad guy because of what he has done (or more to the point not done). While he has finally stopped taking deposits, he continues to take orders. He continually extends customer's delivery times, after telling them over and over again that they will have their knives in some pre-determined time, that he never delivers the knife by. He further delays delivery times, by starting new ventures before he clears up his previous orders.

Nyeti, it is obvious that you are Emerson's friend. It is commendable that you are trying to defend his actions. However, you need to step back and look at the big picture.

I, nor any other dealer I know is making a "fortune" off of Emerson knives. At this point I only know of 2 dealers who are actively seeking knives from Emerson.

You are correct, that I do sell a lot of Emerson custom knives. Ironically, next to Emerson I sell more of his knives than anyone.

With that statement said, of the 40 or so makers I carry on a regular basis, Emerson custom knives sales put him 36th on that list. So much for the "profiteer motive".

Nyeti, the funny thing is, if Emerson would do what he has promised his customers and deliver the knives even close to on time. His knives would not command the money they do. People are not screaming for their knives to make a profit. They are screaming because Emerson continues to lack the honesty and integrity custom knife collectors have come to expect from custom knife professionals.

Nyeti, Im sure Emerson does not want to be viewed as a victim, so do not try an put him in that light. Emerson and Emerson alone is responsible for all the ill feelings that exsist towards him at this point in his career.

As for being a superior peice of tactical gear. If that is so, why did Dick Marcinko give up his "beloved" CQC6 for a Gerber and Sypderco? I think you would agree that Mr. Marcinko would qualify as an "operator".

Nyeti, it is not the profiteers (as we like the rest of you are not getting knives directly from Emerson) that are keeping Emerson kives out of wanting hands. That distinction is Emerson's alone.

Les



[This message has been edited by Les Robertson (edited 02-11-2000).]
 
Excellent rebuttal by Les. It was non-confrontational and addressed the key points. Why do I bring this up? There is so much flaming in these forums, it is refreshing to see good dialog that is issue driven, not emotionally charged.

I already stated my piece earlier, so no more commentary on that.

------------------
"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."
George Orwell
 
Les
Whats the rest of the story. I find it hard to believe Marcinko would trade an Emerson for a Gerber and a SpyderCo (a Gerber?"shaking head"). About $150 or so compared to how much for a custom Emerson? There must be more to that story or he sounds like every dealers dream come true customer LOL.
Bob
 
Hi Bob,

The rest of the story? You know me, Im not one to "stir the pot".

However, if you remember several years ago Emerson made a knife called the "Rogue Warrior".

Mr. Marcinko took exception to his moniker being used without his permission on this knife.

On Emerson's behalf I would have been surprised as well. After all Emerson supplied Marchinko and his team CQC8's with special stenciling for the teams trip back to Vietnam.

It seemed like it was a pretty good matchup and was particularly good for Emerson. How much was all that publicity worth in Marcinko's books. After all in one of the books Dirty Dick wrote after dispatching one of the bad guys that there was no way he was leaving his $600 CQC6 behind. At the time this knife sold for $375.00. Marcinko must be one of those "profiters" that Nyeti was speaking of.

As to the exact particulars, only Emerson and Marciko know. Marcinko in his next book opted for the factory knives to replace his much beloved CQC6. Of course there could be other reasons, as I said only the prinicpal parties really know what transpired.

Unfortunately, this incident did nothing to enhance eithers reputation in the custom knife community.

Les


 
Les
Interesting story. I had heard bits and pieces of it before. Thanks for posting it.
Bob
 
I don't think I deserve my Emerson custom order faster than anyone else but I do dislike the fact that there are people who are buying them for the very fact that they can turn around and make a profit off of it (I'm not talking about you, Les). This practice occurs in other markets as well and it just happens to be something that we have to deal with. It obviously sucks that knives are kept out of the hands of people who will treasure them and use them. Or for the ones think they want them perhaps there could be a week long rental program where they could see that they really don't want the knife.

Emerson's practices haven't been perfect (2 years off the map when he set up the production company). At this point, what gets me is that he isn't making knives and filling orders. There are just two many other projects with the Mach-1 coming out and that prototype that Les had awhile back possibly going into production. Just think about how longs its taken for the Police Utility Knife to come out. It's been about two years.

I heard a nasty rumour that Emerson was only making knives for his friends and he was trying to ease his way out of the custom business. I don't know if this is true, but there comes a point where the wait is ridiculous. You can't just keep adding years. A lot of people who ordered can sympathize. When I ordered I was quoted 18 months. After a lot of silence it's now 4 years. If Emerson is doing other projects fine, just tell us that there will not be any more customs. I remember two years ago after the West coast and New York shows about how Emerson wouldn't be auctioning off numbers tp buy his custom knives. So this past year at the NY show I was quite surprised to see knives and the auctioning process he said he would not continue.

I personally see this custom/production scheme as a way for Emerson to ease out of the custom business. It allows him to every once in awhile release a knife with a handground blade (Limited edition Commander $1299.00) and pick and choose small projects to work on. I don't know if everyone else sees it, it's very clear to me (Read the text for the Emerson Company Store). Even the new customs are plain (look at the CQC8's of the past 2.5 years) It's hard work and if he wants to quit he's worked very hard for his production house and reputation.

Everyone may not agree with Les but he's always been a straight shooter who's dealt with people honestly and responded quickly to all of his customers.
He's also the one who pointed all of this out 4 years ago (I remember because I was a Freshman in college).

He just has to let us know. If not, it'll severely hurt his reputation as it drags out ten years from now if it ever gets that far.

Jason

 
I don't think the profiteers are the bad guys in this story. All they're doing is buying and selling knives from and to people who have them or want them. The problem at hand is the failure to deliver as promised, and the greater failure to answer the legitimate questions raised in a thread like this one. Aftermarket prices are not the cause of any of the discontent expressed here, and pointing to it obscures the real culprits. When are we going to see an honest answer on deliveries?
 
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