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Price is$300$250 ea (shipped within CONUS). If you live outside the US, I will contact you after your order for extra shipping charges.
Order here: https://www.bladeforums.com/help/2024-traditional/ - Order as many as you like, we have plenty.
Waiting on Magnacut!
- Thread starter gdwtvb
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Eric Glesser has been walking around with a Magnacut Manix 2 LW "production prototype" since at least December. I believe he was showing it to people at Shot Show, too.
Joseph Bandeko
Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider
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I think most of you (not all) are missing the point, Magnacut performs just like 4V (which I’m sure you all know is a great steel) but it’s super stainless so practically no maintenance. Sure there’s other steels that perform the same or better in one category, but again that’s not the point, it’s having really good performance from all those categories in one steel.
I personally can’t wait to start using it on my custom fixed blades!
I personally can’t wait to start using it on my custom fixed blades!
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If there's a knife I know I want and I see its available or going to be available in Magnacut then yes, I'll wait for it in that steel. I have enough knives that I don't need to have anything right away.
I just got in a Rockwall Thumbstud in Magnacut and its pretty cool!
I just got in a Rockwall Thumbstud in Magnacut and its pretty cool!
The real benefit of Magnacut is it's superior toughness over others PM stainless so unless the maker ran it really hard at thin geometry, we properly won't see any improvement over other PM stainless... In fact, steel like M390 or S90V will hold an edge significantly better in cardboard cutting.
Hashishiin
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Hmm, pre-ordered one of those Magnacut Natives from Knifecenter, really wondering if the hype will match up. I bought three beautiful PM2s in quick succession, all different, all to use through many, many years. Got a normal S45VN one, the Cruwear Micarta one with non-nested liners and the copper-handled REX45 one with liner only on one side.
Considering what I have, plus Opinels and K55s, things like that, Case, etc, I wonder if I really need the Magnacut, though. The knife is not particularly WOWing me, just the steel. The other knives, I really really love.
Considering what I have, plus Opinels and K55s, things like that, Case, etc, I wonder if I really need the Magnacut, though. The knife is not particularly WOWing me, just the steel. The other knives, I really really love.
Hashishiin
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Have you heard of the Cruwear Boker slipjoint?
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Basically a stainless version of 4v. Unfortunately, a factory grind won't bring out the best properties of this steel other than it's corrosion resistance. It's not going to impress someone who really wants wear resistance as their primary goal. What it will do is allow custom makers to run their knives extremely thin at the edge and very hard. A well made magnacut custom will be able to utilize geometries that m390 won't be able to dream of, and have exceptional edge stability.
The Spyderco mule is ground to 0.025" behind the edge, and run at 62-63 HRC. At those parameters, the properties other than toughness and stain resistance aren't really going to stand out compared to m390, s35vn etc. But if you have a good custom maker make you a knife at 0.007" behind the edge and 65 HRC, all of a sudden it stands apart from all other stainless steels. And even at 65 HRC, it should have the same toughness of s30v at 60 HRC. Are we ever going to se a Spyderco ground that thin and hard? I doubt it, but never say never.
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I don't think anyone's missing the point. I think the usecases wherein Magnacut will clearly and objectively outshine other knives in cutting performance are going to be extraordinarily tiny amongst the normal EDC and cardboard cutting use crowd that frequents this forum. There are plenty of steels out there that do entirely great at those kinds of things. "But it's stainless!!" I mean, all due respect, but....and? I myself live in a humid environment, and have never had a knife in a modern "super" steel rust on me. Not once. But then, I also tend to wipe my knives down after use, so there's that. That's why you're seeing so many comments along the lines of "I don't see what the big deal is". Many of us here have so many knives that cut exceptionally well, I won't speak for others, but I cannot think of a usecase in my life where it would be better if my knife was made of MagnaCut instead of S35vn/Cruwear/XHP/etc. If I want a non-rusting water knife, I've already got a few Spyderco Salts stashed around, and I've never had an issue with any of them failing to perform. So, as far as I'm concerned, I don't have any issues in my knife-using experience that MagnaCut is going to come save me from. Your mileage may vary.
Hey, maybe I'm crazy, and we're going to be seeing MagnaCut knives with edges at like, ten degrees inclusive or some nonsense that can turn a refrigerator box into ribbons and still shave hair, but I candidly don't think so.
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At least for the salt series, it'll revolutionize cutting performance the same way lc200n did when H1 salts were upgraded. Lc200n is highly stainless, but it really lacks performance in edge retention. With magnacut you have a steel that is 95% as corrosion resistant and yet has significantly higher edge retention. The only other steel in the highly stainless class which compares to magnacut in that regard is vanax which is impractical to put on a production knife due to expense and supply issues.I don't think anyone's missing the point. I think the usecases wherein Magnacut will outshine other knives in cutting performance are going to be extraordinarily tiny amongst the normal EDC and cardboard cutting use crowd that frequents this forum. There are plenty of steels out there that do entirely great at those kinds of things. "But it's stainless!!" I mean, all due respect, but....and? I myself live in a humid environment, and have never had a knife in a modern "super" steel rust on me. Not once. But then, I also tend to wipe my knives down after use, so there's that. That's why you're seeing so many comments along the lines of "I don't see what the big deal is". Many of us here have so many knives that cut exceptionally well, I won't speak for others, but I cannot think of a usecase in my life where it would be better if my knife was made of MagnaCut instead of S35vn/Cruwear/XHP/etc. If I want a non-rusting water knife, I've already got a few Spyderco Salts stashed around, and I've never had an issue with any of them failing to perform. So, as far as I'm concerned, I don't have any issues in my knife-using experience that MagnaCut is going to come save me from. Your mileage may vary.
Hey, maybe I'm crazy, and we're going to be seeing MagnaCut knives with edges at like, ten degrees inclusive or some nonsense that can turn a refrigerator box into ribbons and still shave hair, but I candidly don't think so.
If rust isn't an issue at all for you, you won't see any difference between magnacut and cruwear... magnacut was designed to take the properties of the tool steels in the cruwear/4v/rex 45 class of steels and add stainlessness there. But rusting is a concern for some people and for them this will be a great addition to Spyderco's lineup. As for the comparison between magnacut and s35vn/xhp, those are not really comparable classes of steels. Magnacut is basically an upgrade on s35vn in every way... tougher, runs harder and holds an edge longer while being almost as easy to sharpen. I would argue that XHP is just not comparable to magnacut since it's got very different properties. It might have a bit more edge retention than magnacut, but it's nowhere near as tough, can't get as hard and isn't a true stainless steel. It's got 2.5x the carbide volume of magnacut... so I'd expect it to hold an edge longer at a significant sacrifice to edge stability and toughness.
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So, a lot of what you're saying might be true in the above bold, but here's the thing. What does that mean for the majority of the EDC community who doesn't use a knife for hours on end? S35vn with a good heat treat is still a fantastic steel, for example.
When we start talking about "a bit more edge retention" or " holds an edge longer", that just loses me because it's just not something that really means much in the way I carry and use knives. Hell, I'm that guy who'll strop a knife after using it to eat a steak dinner with, to make sure the edge didn't take any damage on the plate. I don't know how many carbides are in my favorite steels, but they work, so I assume it's "enough". LOL
So, having a knife that would stay sharper "a bit longer" just doesn't really mean anything to me. "Longer" and "A bit more" just aren't selling points to me at this stage in the game. When I have a stack of boxes that need to go out on trash day, I simply slice the tape, fold 'em flat, and stuff 'em in the recycling bin. In fact, I can't actually recall the last time I used a knife to the point where it was truly dull. If I was an avid hunter, and was using a knife to clean several deer without having time to stop for some reason, MagnaCut seems like it'll be right up that user's alley.
ALL OF THAT SAID, no one really needs to objectively argue for why they might like knives in that steel. I'm certainly not trying to dissuade anyone from buying some of the new knives coming out. I'm sure many people will buy and swear by it, just like all of the other super steels we have. I'm just past the point where I make up usecases for steels personally, so a new steel that promises to be only "a bit" better than what I have now, and whose main claim to fame is something I don't actually need (good in water) just isn't wowing me. And having seen some of the comments here and elsewhere online, I'm absolutely not alone in that point of view.
If I'm waiting for anything, it'll be a race knife (or knives) at a BladeSport event.
Like a few people mentioned before, it's the high stainless property with the high toughness at a high harndess (+60 HRC) that should be exciting to see in medium to larger knives. For smaller EDC knives, and specifically production knives, the standard fare of high carbide stainless steels are likely a better choice.
It is nice that the steel expands upon the niche of near stain-proof steels and improves accessibility to those types of steels for both makers and users.
Like a few people mentioned before, it's the high stainless property with the high toughness at a high harndess (+60 HRC) that should be exciting to see in medium to larger knives. For smaller EDC knives, and specifically production knives, the standard fare of high carbide stainless steels are likely a better choice.
It is nice that the steel expands upon the niche of near stain-proof steels and improves accessibility to those types of steels for both makers and users.
CDHumiston
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I see your point with custom makers, of which I am a novice one. But I think the price point may be prohibitive to me.
72 Square Inches of Magnacut for $110 compared to 288 Square Inches of AEB-L for $88.
In a price vs quality arena, I think the AEB-L is quite the bargain.
I've been getting great results on my kitchen knives in AEB-L. I achieve 63HRC consistently and I have not been able to cryo treat my steel yet. The friends and family that use my kitchen knives love them and I don't think they would notice or appreciate the difference in steels.
I'm sure my skill level has not reached the area where I'm grinding at some geometry that requires this type of super steel.
I'm not trying to talk down the Magnacut steel in any way. I just may not be educated enough to understand the benefits. For now, I'm happy with the steels I'm working with.
CDHumiston
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Can anyone explain these ratings to me? These are directly off of Alpha Knife Supply Steel Charts.
They state that the Maximum is 100 and Minimum is 0. So, I assume the higher the number the better the rating.
Am I missing something here?
Ratings: AEB-L
80 = Maximum Toughness
44 = Maximum Edge Holding
Ratings: CPM Magnacut
33 = Maximum Toughness
56 = Maximum Edge Holding
Ratings: CPM S35VN
20 = Maximum Toughness
51 = Maximum Edge Holding
Ratings: CPM 154
18 = Maximum Toughness
47 = Maximum Edge Holding
They state that the Maximum is 100 and Minimum is 0. So, I assume the higher the number the better the rating.
Am I missing something here?
Ratings: AEB-L
80 = Maximum Toughness
44 = Maximum Edge Holding
Ratings: CPM Magnacut
33 = Maximum Toughness
56 = Maximum Edge Holding
Ratings: CPM S35VN
20 = Maximum Toughness
51 = Maximum Edge Holding
Ratings: CPM 154
18 = Maximum Toughness
47 = Maximum Edge Holding
sgt1372
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I'm not qualified to comment on the ratings/charts that you mention but I think you'd find the following article, written by Larrin Thomas (Knife Steel Nerds: March 21, 2021) regarding MagnaCut (which he developed) and how it tested in comparison w/other steels, more informative.
See: CPM MagnaCut – The Next Breakthrough in Knife Steel
Wolverine777
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I’ll definitely try out Magnacut when it comes out. But I’m in no rush. And would I “wait” (and stop all knife purchases) until it does come out? Absolutely not.
toker
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This to me is where Magnacut really seems to shine. I use my H1 Catcherman for all my salt water duties, but I've never been impressed with it's edge retention. After a day of use fishing, I've always had to sharpen it. Even when I was using it for waterfowl, it would get dull after processing a few birds.
For EDC tasks, I'm not seeing where it's going to be a quantum leap over the M390/20CV blades that I currently use and the edge retention seems to be a step back.
ferider
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These ratings don't seem too different from Larrin's data.
Here is my personal and subjective view
- the entire "data-view" on steels is heavily distorted by box and rope cutting comparisons, which don't have much relevance to what I do day-2-day. I have a dedicated box cutter, and there is that. In the foreseeable future, the box and rope cutting emphasis on youtube and internet fora is unlikely to change.
- Box and Rope cutting is also important for cutting competitions, where the best compromise between cutting and chopping is achieved today by 4V and M4. In the future you might add Magnacut to these "competition steels"
- 4V is actually not that tough - I've broken a 4V knife tip (on a Manix 2) and much prefer tougher steels like 3V, AEB-L, etc.
- When many people read "tough" they think of a knife catastrophically breaking. However, the toughness indices in your post, and in Larrin's data also mean that a knife wont chip. higher toughness = higher edge stability.
- The biggest differentiation of Magnacut to other steels in my eyes is extremely high corrosion resistance. Similar to LC200N (more corrosion resistant than AEB-L) but harder.
When I look at my hard Japanese kitchen knives, after usage they show chips. Due to high edge stability, AEB-L wears more smoothly, it's much easier to go over a stone a couple of times when the knife is needed ... think razor blades: that's what AEB-L was made for.
IMO, AEB-L is one of the best kitchen knife steels out there, likely also better than Magnacut. Unless you need super corrosion resistance, say for a lime cutter, and you don't clean your knives very often ....
My 2 cents,
Roland.