Walmart and Grade 'B' Products?

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Jul 28, 2011
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Does Buck sell Grade 'B' product to Walmart?

In a discussion in the MultiTool sub-forum recently, there was a discussion about a Learherman Wave that was purchased at Walmart and that has QC issues.

One of the responders suggested that a) manufacturers grade product and b) that Walmart gets these grade 'B' products to meet their low price point pressure. He discusses the example of lower grade Remington shotguns at Walmart.

HUGE CAVEAT: the poster notes this is not based on sound sources and may definitely not be true.

Has anybody heard of such a practice with Walmart (or other low price retailers) and more to the point, does Buck do this?

The post is here

Look, it may be second-hand hearsay, and innuendo, so take this with a huge grain of salt, maybe a lick-block worth. Walmart has in the past purchased what would be considered lower grade products from some manufacturers to save cost. For example, take something like a remington 870. there is no functional difference between an express and a wingmaster, just cleaner fit and finish, an probably polish. So at each assembly stage they get graded into the category. So an express that gets downgraded a few more times, maybe the checkering is a bit rougher than normal, and the stock match-up isn't quite there might get done down to police special and sold that way, or sold through a club discount thing. Thats assuming that internally its to spec, which I would say the focus would be on. That allows them to sell more of the units produced, instead of having to scrap a percentage. Walmart steps in and says, we will buy x units at y cost. Well below the standard wholesale price. So then they have a choice, be in a big part of the market, and make the sale, or restrict themselves to a narrower market, and take the loss. Now this is not to say that Remington would sell a crappy gun, but given the chance to sell a gun to someone who is willing to sacrifice a little to get a good price, they may do so. A rough 870 is still a great shotgun, and a flaw in the bluing isn't going to worry a walmat buyer, where it would from a smaller dedicated gun-shop. I've noticed that other brands of products that are sold there at a significant discount from other stores, tend to not look as good as the more expensive versions, that ranges from fishing rods to garden hoses. Now buying power makes up for a lot of the end retail price, but there are limits. There is a reason that walmart sells what it sells, to who it sells.

Now all that being said, would walmart take a known bad return, put it back on the shelf and sell it? probably right in the manual. So I hope that its not a move on Leatherman's part to let some rougher stuff slide into the supply stream, since it would only hurt them long term. Some products have a much lower tolerance than others. no-one is going to care if their garden hose lasts 5 years instead of 7, or if the oil they buy for their mower is only 80% as good as stuff from another store. Heck, even a bad rifle will outshoot most guys, and they might never notice that its a little rougher than one that was hand-picked for a smaller mom-pop shop. but a multi-tool that you use nearly every day will show its flaws much faster.

This isn't a bash on them, there are plenty of other places for that sort of thing, and that's not here. they have a business model that works in a certain way, and to the best of my understanding, thats how it works. I could be fully wrong, and have no actual evidence to support any statements made. I'm merely elaborating on a statement made, in response to a question asked. that should C my A enough I think....
 
As you know I bought a 110 from Wal-Mart that was very poor. It was on sale less than thirty dollars. I often wondered the same thing. I just ordered another fifty year 110, from a online dealer, that will be here Tuesday. Looking forward to comparing it to my Wal-Mart purchase, in regard to durability and fit and finish.
 
The only knife I have that came from Walmart is a CRKT Ripple. It's been perfect - essentially flawless.
 
The question about products at WalMart and other big discount chains has been going on for a long time, especially about electronic products. There may be some truth to the idea that a product labeled "Model 8275" may be a little different when a person looks at the actual ten to fifteen digit model number. That number may differ in the last one or two digits, which indicates a slightly different product. As for Buck, they have models made in China for the discount trade; however, those are clearly labeled as "Made in China" and have their own model number. In addition, I am not one of the "Made in China" bashers of Buck knives. They are less expensive and not the same as the "Made in USA" knives, but for the price they are good knives. I would be very surprised if the models made in the United States for the overall retail market differ from one retailer to another. In simple terms, if you buy a Buck 110, USA at WalMart, it is the same knife you would buy anywhere else.

Bert
 
I'm pretty sure Walmart wants things like blister packs instead of boxes, nylon sheaths instead of leather or at least that's how Buck meets Walmart's price point on the 110 and other models. Another way was to have certain models made overseas. I seriously doubt that Buck makes the knives themselves to a lower standard of QC than all other production. Do the 110's at Walmart use a different steel for the blade, different scale material, frame? Think about it. Does it even make sense to do that? Where are the savings?

If you sell a shotgun with a checkered walnut stock for $500 and the exact same shotgun with an uncheckered hardwood stock stained to look like walnut for $350 the gun isn't made any less well, it's just made with a less expensive component.
 
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Just for reference, a 110 at our local wallyworld is the same exact price as at Dicks......

Also, aren't Buck's knives that aren't 100% sold at the factory store as factory blemish knives?
And the box labels are also marked as such.
 
I'm pretty sure Walmart wants things like blister packs instead of boxes, nylon sheaths instead of leather or at least that's how Buck meets Walmart's price point on the 110 and other models. Another way was to have certain models made overseas. I seriously doubt that Buck makes the knives themselves to a lower standard of QC than all other production. Do the 110's at Walmart use a different steel for the blade, different scale material, frame? Think about it. Does it even make sense to do that? Where are the savings?

The OP quoted the post that explained where the savings are. It makes sense - let's say something falls out of a 2% spec, but is still within the 5% spec. It's still functional, but perhaps you'd normally send it back for rework. However, if you find a retailer that's willing to take that 5% stock and sell it at a lower price point - again, it's still within the acceptable 5% spec, just not the ideal 2% spec - you're saving money on rework or even potential scrap.

That being said, I personally don't put too much stock into that theory, because it's purely conjecture.
 
In a 2011 interview with Chuck Buck, that I recently read, he said Walmart wanted certain price points for knives.
The easiest way to meet that criteria was to have stuff made in China.
Approximately 13% of their knives are made in China.
And most of those go to their biggest customer..... Walmart.....

Here is the applicable excerpt from that interview. ....

S-R: How many of your knives are made in China?

Buck: About 13 percent. Walmart, our largest account, wants price points around $9, $12, $15, and it’s pretty hard for us to do that here. Most of our Chinese-made products go to Walmart.
 
The OP quoted the post that explained where the savings are. It makes sense - let's say something falls out of a 2% spec, but is still within the 5% spec. It's still functional, but perhaps you'd normally send it back for rework. However, if you find a retailer that's willing to take that 5% stock and sell it at a lower price point - again, it's still within the acceptable 5% spec, just not the ideal 2% spec - you're saving money on rework or even potential scrap.

That being said, I personally don't put too much stock into that theory, because it's purely conjecture.
I don't either. If it's out of spec and the customer sends it back to Buck under their warranty then Buck has to rework or replace it anyway and pay to ship it back. They potentially risk loosing more than they would make. Also with that theory to supply someone like Walmart you'd have to have a huge amount of out of spec product.
 
I hear this theory about Walmart selling lesser grade products about knives, guns, and if I ever were to go to a Pyrex cookware forum, I have no doubt I'd hear it there to.

Bought a lot of knives and guns over the years there, and comparing them to the same model bought elsewhere, I've yet to see any evidence of this "grade b" stuff.
 
I bet to some agree it does some happen with Wal-mart sold products. Ive heard tire makers have 3 different grades of tires, one thats get sold the car makers, ones sold thru there stores and ones sold thru other stores. Its probably not written anywhere, but I bet if you asked someone in the industry I bet at least someone would be willing to admit its at least an unwritten agreement between maker and seller
 
Also with that theory to supply someone like Walmart you'd have to have a huge amount of out of spec product.

That's the biggest issue I have with it. It might make sense for high volume items like ammunition, as someone mentioned. But I'm not sure it'd make a significant enough difference with knives to risk damaging their reputation.
 
It should be noted Buck blemished knives are "cosmetic blemishes" only, not "mechanical blemishes". As per Buck Factory they will not sell a mechanical blemished knife.
 
In a 2011 interview with Chuck Buck, that I recently read, he said Walmart wanted certain price points for knives.
The easiest way to meet that criteria was to have stuff made in China.
Approximately 13% of their knives are made in China.
And most of those go to their biggest customer..... Walmart.....

Here is the applicable excerpt from that interview. ....

S-R: How many of your knives are made in China?

Buck: About 13 percent. Walmart, our largest account, wants price points around $9, $12, $15, and it’s pretty hard for us to do that here. Most of our Chinese-made products go to Walmart.

This is what Walmarts does to all their sellers, demand the price they will pay. And unfortunately they are big enough to make companies participate because of the volume they guarantee they will order. I hope you don't think you are getting the same quality and the companies just decided to take a loss at Walmarts demands. Also Chuck said in an interview that they do not oversee the heat treatment in China, they only suggest how to it should be done. Inferring they do it any way they want (probably the cheapest). Draw you own conclusions. Personally I always go by, you get what you pay for.:D
 
It's a rumor I have heard for years about Walmart. I would expect there are some items which have a different model # for sale at Walmart and that item is different. Years ago, I know the military PX system did that with some electronics; the speakers looked the same but had different model #'s on the PX versions for some reason and were much cheaper, not sure if they were lower quality or not since I never dug into it.

People hate on Walmart and want to say you're buying lower grade stuff there. Don't see how that can be done. I can see a knife not coming with a leather sheath and in a blister pack to save some $$ for them. I also read the same things about their guns, they get certain models made for them (some very nice and rare) at certain price points but I don't think a maker is going to put their name on junk just to have it sold at Walmart.

Wonder if people hated on Sears and Roebuck 100 years ago like this?
 
Here is my own story with goods grading that makes me that this is entirely possible.


Polartec 300 is a brand of fleece manufactured by Malden Mills. It was developed in partnership with Patagonia who sold it under the name "Synchilla". In the early 90s, I purchased a Polartec 300 jacket from LLBean and when I got it, the fabric was very thin. I called LLBean (whose warranty program set the standard) and they looked at several jackets in stock and informed me that they varied noticeably in thickness. They hand selected a thicker one for me but when I received it, it was still not as thick as the fleece from Patagonia.

I happen to live not far from the Malden Mills factory and visited the fabric outlet they used to have to buy fleece to make some ski hats. I asked about the variance in the Polartec 300 and the person at the factory store informed me that there was significant variance coming off of the production line and that different manufacturer/retailers specified different QC variances in their purchasing agreements. Patagonia was comparatively low volume but higher priced and demanded the thickest fleece possible. LLBean was comparatively higher volume but lower priced and accepted thinner fleece (at that time in the mid 90s).

We know that Buck has been using cold stamping processes, which can add some variances. As with any manufacturing process, there is also the issue of aging tooling. It's not at all inconceivable to me that there are detectable grading of parts and finished products along the line that fall well within the limits for safe operation and function but that, none the less, end up producing grade 'A' and grade 'B' finished goods at the factory. It's also very conceivable to me that smaller run retailer make-ups (e.g. Cabelas) could be done with higher QC controls called for in the purchasing agreements. I'm not saying this is true, only that if true, it would be consistent with what I know about outdoor fabrics.

By way of reminder, I've puchased 2 Buck knives at Walmart within the past 5 years. A Bucklite Max folder was fine out of the box but developed scary vertical play within a year. I got a Walmart version of the Spitfire (different model number/name) last year and out of the box it was among the sloppiest lockbacks I've ever held.

I can't believe that a modern company like Buck doesn't do product grading internally when we know that other modern manufacturers do but maybe they don't.
 
I used to work in retail as a manager. I do not know about Bucks, but I know about other brands. Other big name manufacturers sell the same items to different retailers with major or minor differences to keep things competitive by market. These items are not purposely defective, just altered in performance, parts or color. They do this for only big box retailers who are able to buy a huge lot to ensure profit margin. That is how one retailer can sell item 'A' at 'X' price and retailer 'B' can't. If one were to try and price match, you will find there will be a slight model difference in either model number/name, color or whatever.
 
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