Want a *real* super steel blade help me choose between...

B

bgentry

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Aug 3, 2009
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I have a blade in S30V and another in ZDP-189. I'm not impressed with either one's ability to hold a razor sharp edge. The ZDP blade holds a working edge for longer than the S30V, but it still looses the ability to shave hair with only a small amount of cutting of cardboard and that kind of thing. The S30V blade looses that edge even faster and then degrades to an edge that will *definitely* cut, but it's just not sharp enough for me, so I touch it up very frequently.

I keep hearing about blades that will cut 100+ feet of cardboard and still shave arm hair. I've never seen one in person, but I'm the only real knife nut I know in real life so my exposure is limited. I thought S30V would do this. No way. I thought ZDP-189 would do this. Nope.

I've had a few people on MT&E tell me I need a blade in S90V or 3V or maybe a few other steels I haven't used yet. I'm a big Spyderco fan (which is weird since I used to think they were weird knives, but now I love them), but I'm open to other high quality knives.

I'm considering the Manix 2 light weight in S110V. Seems like a very good deal and I like the blade shape a lot. I'm also a big fan of thin blades, so FFG is right there for me. Not a big fan of the ball bearing lock, but I'm willing to try it out. I've read a few people saying they tested the S110V blade and found it to have poor edge retention. Others say it's outstanding. Anyone actually used one here?

I see that the Yojimbo 2 in S90V is also available, though quite a bit more money. I have the S30V Yojimbo 2, so I know the blade shape, and I like that ultra sharp point. It's pretty thick at the spine, but cuts well at the edge. I'm less inclined to get another one of these, though if it would *really* hold an edge, I'd be into it.

I like an EDC blade that locks in some way, preferably with something like an AXIS type lock, or almost anything *except* a liner lock. I don't like those; even the one I have from Spyderco is not my favorite. (Tenacious)

So what other knives should I be considering? I'd like to keep the budget under $200; really closer to $100 is best, but I can stretch to $200 if it's really worth it. If there was an endura in S90V or S110V I'd be all over it.

Thanks,

Brian.
 
Spyderco K2 in 10V if it's not too big. I don't have it but I have a hunting knife in 10V and it has held it's original edge for months. It's gutted deer, cut rope, insulation, tulle for my wife (which is almost like cutting sandpaper), etc. I'm highly impressed with it.
 
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I happen to know of a manix 2 g10 body with the s110v blade out of the frn manix 2, check out my sig.

I love the steel, I just have no need for it as a butcher. I carry a DPx heat at work.
 
3V

Tough as hell.
Holds and takes a killer edge, longer than you need.
Holds a working edge forever.
Sharpens on a piece of cardboard.
Highly corrosion resistant, although technically not a stainless.

What more can you ask for?!!

*I have only used 3V in custom folders both at 60-61HRC.
 
It's not just about the steel. There are other factors that come into play. Ankerson has a informative thread about different steels. It will be very helpful in what you are looking for. I'd say read his rankings and go from there. It will prevent you from being disappointed in getting another poor performer.
 
I must be behind because I thought s30v was one of the best out there. The only other 'super steel' I have is CPM M4. I have had it a while now but it hasn't seen any hard use so I can't comment on it other than saying it was crazy sharp out of the box and has stayed that way through six months of normal daily carry use.
 
I would echo its not just the steel. Heat treat, edge geometry as well as what kind of edge you put on it will all factor into edge retention. S30V and ZDP189 if I remember do much better with a polished edge. Something about the large carbides dont work well with a working edge and just shear off. A polished edge should last a bit more. But honestly if you arent getting good performance out of ZDP? either something is wrong with the heat treat or its something wrong with the edge on the knife. If both THOSE things are good to go then I think you need to be looking at tool steels.
 
I think there's something wrong with the ZDP-189 you got. I've been using my Dragonfly2 in ZDP-189 for months, it's the only steel that manage to stay shaving sharp. Manix 2 S110V would be a close second as it would lose it's shaving sharpness but still have a working edge. S30V and VG10 are just far behind...

Just started using Elmax and am pleasantly surprised how good it is so far.
 
My first thought in what is affordable is the LW S110V manix. I cannot praise the performance of that steel enough. Next would be the Farid Spyderco folder in 10V.
 
I have a ZT 0770 in M390 which is a top-rated steel. Ankerson does his testing with manila rope, but also cuts lots of cardboard and wood sticks.
Here is Ankerson's link of his testing and results for your perusal. You should read it if you want an informed choice. And yes, there is more to it than JUST the blade-steel, as some have already said.
I've read really great things about the Farid Spyderco folder in 10V. It's a large knife, but a great steel. If it were a smaller folder in the size of a PM2 or similar, I'd be all over it.
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...based-on-Edge-Retention-cutting-5-8-quot-rope
 
I have a lot of "super steels" but I don't have M4. I do like them all but M390 is my favorite. I also really like Elmax because of the ease of sharpening. I can't say that I have ever done enough cutting to dull any of them in a day.
 
Well, just my opinion, but I would lower your expectations. No steel is going to cut lots of abrasive materials and still shave well. That's why people started making straight razors dedicated for shaving their face, and knives for cutting stuff. Likewise, no straight razor is gonna last long cutting cardboard or rope. Just the way it is, super steels don't offer any "magic" that change this, they just offer slightly better performance over other steels.

I have a nice custom in ELMAX treated to 62 HRC and it holds an edge so much longer than my similar knives in 1095, but it's not like I can cut up any reasonable amount of material and then go shave arm hair or any other hair off with it effortlessly, and it has a very accute edge angle. I think shaving is a misleading thing anyway, I've taken some pretty dulled and "smoothed" edges with literally no bite and stropped them until I could shave hair with them, but it doesn't mean they were as good at cutting any thing as they were before...

With that being said, steels that are higher in hardness and/or carbide formers like vanadium are going to hold a working edge for much longer than simpler steels like 1095, 440*, and other types that are just basically carbon and iron. It's the carbide formers and other alloying elements that really make "super steels" perform better in any one area, and you need to pay attention to which of these alloying elements is the "key" feature because some steels are more "super" in one area than the other, toughness vs wear-resistance, etc. I haven't got to try a whole lot myself, and to be honest have no interest in spending heaps of money in trying out different ones because so far if I could venture a guess with the different ones I have tried it really doesn't make a whole lot of difference in keeping that really super-refined edge. Sure some steels will keep cutting stuff for longer, but if you expect any steel to "not dull" you're going to be sorely disappointed. Then on top of that, there's the other factor of heat-treatment; it doesn't really matter if you have a terrific steel that's supposed to have excellent wear resistance, if the manufacturer/maker has ran it at a hardness level that isn't optimal to the steel. This happens a lot with some of the better steels out there... One reason why getting a custom is so often recommended, manufacturers just don't want to run blades at higher hardness levels for production knives without also running them for higher cost.

Long story short... You're on the short road to driving yourself crazy. If you want to try the actual knives more power to you, but don't expect the steel to make miracles.
 
How little cardboard are you cutting to loose the edge you like on your 2 blades mentioned above? What kind of cardboard is it? Do you know the edge angles on the knives mentioned? I have a Tojiro petty I've been using to cut cardboard for nearly 300' and it will still shave my arm. I just backbeveled it with a King 1000 grit waterstone and sharpened at 20 degrees per side on the Sharpmaker medium stones.
 
Some cardboard has so much garbage in it that it's like cutting dirt while some others are much cleaner.

Cardboard is a huge variable in itself.
 
I think if you want shaving sharp for a long time, you should look at the non-stainless tool steels. Of course there's the obvious trade-off.
 
I would recommend Benchmade 810 Contego in either CPM-M4 or M390.
 
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When I got my first s30v I was completely underwhelmed coming from 8cr13. Not that it's bad, but not what I had it built up in my head to be. That said, I have been completely surprised by my zt's in Elmax. Sometimes I think the 0566 I got is one that was blessed by the knife maker gods when it was created. It has made me want a fixed blade hunting knife in the stuff.
 
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