War Clubs

Joined
Nov 23, 1998
Messages
1,594
I saw war clubs mentioned in the Maylasian knife discussion by Yvsa. I would be interested in finding more out about them.

I have seen modern ones made of wood with a heavy head, forward curved, and a sharpened wood edge. It is khukuri like in shape!

Will
 
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Hi Will.
I don't know much except it was the weapon of choice by the Tsalagi or Cherokee.
The one you are talkng abut is known as a "Gunstock" type club.Many times these are fitted with one to five spear type blades anywhere from 3" to 6" long.
The effigy style with different animals or human faces carved on them were often reported to be alive and had much of the same stories told about them as the Keris has stories told about them.

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>>>>---¥vsa---->®

If you mix milk of magnesia with vodka and orange juice do you get a phillips screwdriver?

Khukuri FAQ


 
Just for the record, my 5 flanged mace is still behind the truck seat.

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Treat high blood pressure BEFORE the crosshairs start jumping all around in the scope.


 
Rusty, I feel sorry for guy who tries to truckjack you. You'd get medieval on their buttocks for sure, to paraphrase a popular saying.

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Well excccuuuuusssssse me!
 
I spoke to a craftman who makes war clubs at a traditional archery shoot. He was also from Canada, we were in Pensylvanian. He also said that the ones that contain the head are "alive". He also stated that he could not put on certain animals yet and most certainly not human heads. The Mohawks who live near here have related the same information to me.

The one I saw is about 12" long and had a 6" sharpened zone. It was made entirely of wood and was moderately decorated. I definitely asked before I picked it up for examination.

My first exposure to the war club was from the movie last of the Mohecans (sorry for the spelling).

Will
 
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Will it is good to know that tradition is alive and well in your part of the country.
I give you a lot of credit for the respect you showed the people and the Spirits.
That doesn't surprise me considering that you frequent this forum.

With the length and the sharpened edge you are describing one that even though it may be from this continent describes one that comes from Hawaii.I have a "sister" that was there visiting her daughter not long ago.She met a tribesman there that was also native to Hawaii.
He sent back some wood for us both.
One of them is hard enough to sharpen to a razor edge and one time Warclubs and even swords were made from this.
He has a permit from the state and feds to collect this wood for Ceremonial and other uses.

I have found that many common or uncommon things have many of the same stories told about them and the powers that each possess.
I have had some personal experiences with some old and very old objects which very much let me know they're very much alive.
It seems the Flute is an instrument that is found in all parts of the world as is the warclub.Thier similarities are fascinating.
If the scientists are correct then the Neanderthal made and played a bone Flute.I think that should dispel some of the original thoughts about these people.



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>>>>---¥vsa---->®

If you mix milk of magnesia with vodka and orange juice do you get a phillips screwdriver?

Khukuri FAQ


 
To tell the truth,( and this is another of my tall tales )there ain't nowhere on earth that there's more ammo than the place where I live.

Do you want ammo for a battleship? A destroyer? Torpedos? Tanks? Artillery? Bombs? This* is "where it's at".

*Previously known as Naval Ammunition Depot - Hawthorne, or aka Hawthorne Weapons And Ammunition Plant.

[This message has been edited by Rusty (edited 27 October 1999).]
 
Yvsa mentioned:

If the scientists are correct then the Neanderthal made and played a bone Flute.I think that should dispel some of the original thoughts about these people.

As I understand it, this is more than a bit in doubt. There was a recent <a href="http://more.abcnews.go.com/sections/science/DailyNews/flute990922.html" target=new1>news story</a> about some 9,000 year-old bone flutes found in China, at least one of which was still playable.

The most relevant passage to Yvsa's comment seems to be:

The Jiahu flute is considerably more recent than a flutelike bone discovered in 1995 in an excavation of Neanderthal tools in a cave in Slovenia. That artifact was believed to be more than 43,000 years old, but musicologists question whether it is an instrument.

The Neandertals (the currently accepted spelling) were indeed fascinating, but our knowledge of them remains pretty limited and is more controversial than a lot of the reporters, or even scientists, will readily say. I see a lot of strong statements from proponents of different points of view, and while there is nothing wrong with that, we laymen have to be cautious in interpreting what we hear. I advocate being cautious of any claims either that Neandertals were "a lot like us" or that they were "wildly different from us." We still know little of their behavior. The were clearly much more like us than any non-human species currently alive, but they may have been much more different from us behaviorally and culturally than any "human" culture that we have any data on. In particular, I don't think it's safe to extrapolate from any "primitive" hunter-gatherer society of Homo sapiens to what life may have been like among the Neandertals.

There is getting to be a huge amount of evidence for Neandertals and "modern humans" living in close proximity for thousands of years and very limited evidence for intermarriage/genetic mixing. More evidence for that may (or may not) show up, but for now, I would tend to suspect that it is more likely that Homo neanderthalensis and Homo sapiens were distinct species and not just "races" or "subspecies" of "people."

As attractive as it may be to say, as Jan Simek <a href="http://abcnews.go.com/sections/science/DailyNews/neanderthal991025.html" target=new2>does</a> that
You’re not talking about one advanced form and an animal. They were all people.

we still have to be pretty careful about defining the word "people." It's easy to see that the Neandertals were close relatives of ourselves, but there are a lot of unanswered questions about the details of the relationship. I'd like to recommend a book that I read recently, <a href="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0380728818/qid=941120820/sr=1-2/002-3187040-6389016" target="new3">The Neandertal Enigma: Solving the Mystery of Modern Human Origins</a> by James Shreeve, which presents a reasonably impartial discussion of quite a few of the problems with all of the various current theories of just how we and the Neandertals are related. I have little doubt that we will know more in a few more years, but there are a lot more questions than answers now.

Sorry I am often so long-winded. I have a lot of trouble being brief.
frown.gif


Yvsa's sig:
If you mix milk of magnesia with vodka and orange juice do you get a phillips screwdriver?

OUCH!! That's a good one (if you are as perverse as I am
smile.gif
)


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Paul Neubauer
prn@bsu.edu
Join the NSSSA (Nationial Short-Sleeve Shirt Association) -- Support the right to bare arms!



[This message has been edited by prn (edited 28 October 1999).]
 
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Thanks Paul.
I may get that one one of these days.
I just got one entitled "Lost Civilizations of the Stone Age.Since I got online my purchase of books has remained about the same,but my reading them has dwindled a lot.I am only about 1/2 way through "The Gurkhas" by Farwell book I got.

I sent Uncle Bill a 3 hole bone flute similar to the ones shown.I don't think he has still learned to pucker the magical way it takes to make it sing.
smile.gif

I first saw one at Woolaroc the famous Frank Phillips Hunting Lodge and Lands.The have a wonderful museum there too.
I feel very priviliged to be one of the few people allowed behind the rope and up the stairs in the Hunting Lodge.If there hadn't of been so many VIPs there that day I would have also been allowed to play a very old Comanche Flute.
I have a walking stick that's made of Oklahoma River Cane and the sections in it were far enough apart to make a Flute from it also.
I did that and wrapped it in a Rattlsnake skin from one that tried to bite me 22 years ago.
The caretaker in the Lodge that day was pretty sharp and recognized my walking stick as a Flute also and asked me to play.That's what led to me getting to go into a place not open to the public,but then the Flute has opened many doors for me.

As Uncle says,"What has this got to do with Khukuris? Everything!"
The Flute once played a larger part in Ceremonies and some of that had to do with Warclubs.

PS PSsssst.Paul don't tell anyone,but I may be even more perverse than you.
wink.gif


------------------
>>>>---¥vsa---->®

If you mix milk of magnesia with vodka and orange juice do you get a phillips screwdriver?

Khukuri FAQ




[This message has been edited by Yvsa (edited 28 October 1999).]
 
Its better than a class. I was at many classes not by choice.

Lots of culture, technical, and general fun.

Will
 
Excuse a new reader from piping up in this august assemblage, but on the subject of 'war clubs', I was reminded of a couple of items my brother-in-law, the Navy Seabee cook, brought home from WWII. He had been on Guadalcanal, New Guinea and in the Solomons, so I can't provide the exact provenance of them. One was a tall, round-headed cane, or 'baton of authority', and the other a large 'spear' club with a long diamond-shaped head. Both items had been carved out of single pieces of what looked like dark mahogany (but which was very dense and heavy: may have been purple heart or some other wood) and then completely decorated with small patterns of triangular chips of pearl or abalone. The spear-head was very sharp on the edge: not enough to cut , but certainly enough to 'cleave'. The shafts were originally over 5 feet long, and to get them into his barracks bag he had to saw them in two. He later had them dowelled and rejoined...but it was a shame that they had to be cut at all. These things were not 'tourist souveniers' but actual ceremonial items, I am sure, as there was little tourism in the Southwest Pacific in 1943 and 1944. I was fascinated by the things, as only a ten year old boy could be...but was not allowed to play with them; I think they had a strong mana for him. I don't know what happened to the items, but if they aren't in a museum collection they should be...

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Gunhou, I am old enough to remember the war in the Pacific quite well and you are certainly correct -- not a lot of tourists at that time!

Second, it sounds like museum quality stuff to me. Any pix, by chance?

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Uncle Bill
Himalayan Imports Website
http://members.aol.com/himimp/index.html
 
Gunhou, that spear reminds me of the wooden maori spear I saw in the movie "Once Were Warriors" (made in New Zealand). It was called "taiaha" (spelling could be wrong). One guy also handles it in an impressive way in the movie. That (or a traditional war club of any kind) would be nice to own. Cooler than baseball bats.

Jani

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