Warning on PM2 10V

J

John_0917

Joined
Apr 15, 2014
Messages
3,384
Got my REC PM2, one clip screw had no locker, one had blue (easy removal) and one has locker so tight it will not move even with direct heat exposure.

Be very careful with your clip screws, even using a good driver (Wiha is what I use). I now have a useless $170 knife either going to Spyderco or REC (to be determined), I have never seen this issue on a PM2 before (I own 5 others)
 
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John_0917 said:
Got my REC PM2, one clip screw had no locker, one had blue (easy removal) and one has locker so tight it will not move even with direct heat exposure.

Be very careful with your clip screws, even using a good driver (Wiha is what I use). I now have a useless $170 knife either going to Spyderco or REC (to be determined), I have never seen this issue on a PM2 before (I own 5 others)
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Sorry that happened, Spyderco will make it right! Probably just a fluke, As I just tried mine with no issues. I hope your able to enjoy the 10V. 2020-03-23 14.44.47.jpg 2020-03-23 14.45.15.jpg
 
You may have a cheap bit that does not fit the screw-head correctly - very common with China-made. If you think one was seriously Loc-Tited then hold a soldering iron tip in the well of the screw-head for a minute. That will dissolve even Red Loc-Tite. Just don't melt your G10.
 
I would highly recommend pre-driving the screws in without the clip, if you are going to change the orientation. You want those screws to get a good bite on the available threads.

These were definitelly more difficult getting in compared to my multiple other PM2s.

dL1RIxs.jpg
 
I had one that when I went to make it tip up carry one of the holes wasn't threaded. Got a tap for $4 on Amazon and fixed it.
 
Just flipped my clip on the blackout blade model and didn't have any issue. I saw no locktite at all on any of the screws.
 
Blade_Hunter said:
You may have a cheap bit that does not fit the screw-head correctly - very common with China-made. If you think one was seriously Loc-Tited then hold a soldering iron tip in the well of the screw-head for a minute. That will dissolve even Red Loc-Tite. Just don't melt your G10.
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Wiha bits actually, but I agree on cheap ones being a bad choice.

I was eventually able to get it off by applying flame and turning the clip round and round (the final screw), here’s the aftermath, scorched G10 and all.

6D74450D-569A-4390-99AC-2ECFB734A6BA.jpeg C0F3B3ED-11DF-4D11-AA92-1E05FB2E285E.jpeg 7A12B2D8-8A68-40CF-8FA8-0A485AE52991.jpeg

The last screw is the one shown, it’s hard to take a good pic being so small but it had some kind of “substance” all over it and was a darker color black than the others were. Also, it left a sticky black residue in both on the clip and in the screw threads.

Also two things to mention, and coming from me this should say a lot since I’m a huge Spyderco fan and have been around here a long time:

1) Spyderco CS more or less disregarded and dismissed me when I called them and told them something was up. They literally said there was no way it was secured by a chemical and then said they charge for repairs caused by damage.

2) REC never responded to me at all...this is my first and last purchase from them.
 
John_0917 said:
1) Spyderco CS more or less disregarded and dismissed me when I called them and told them something was up. They literally said there was no way it was secured by a chemical and then said they charge for repairs caused by damage.
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They probably waved you off because Spyderco stopped using red locktite on clip screws like two years ago. It’s a shame you had to torch your knife to get the screw out.

I would’ve suggested taking a small file or thin hacksaw blade and cutting a slot across the top for a flat head screwdriver. Got a screw out of a stretch like that once, and didn’t even touch heat to it.

It would be nice if Spyderco shipped PM2’s for RH tip up, as I think that’s how most of us carry them; and I’ve stripped out a screw trying to reposition it from the factory setting as well. It would also be nice if the screws were a bit harder, but I know how difficult it is to source stainless torx head screws that’s aren’t dead soft.
 
Spyderco has to warn people that if the repair turns out to be necessitated by damage that happened after the knife left the factory they will charge for it. If you did not know what you were doing (and, no offense, but the scorch marks on the G10 prove that beyond a doubt) you should have just sent it to them. Next time, do that, or use the soldering iron I suggested. From your description of the screw I have to think someone outside the factory tried to "repair" a stripped screw with Loc-Tite or some kind of adhesive.

That said, I must say that Spyderco's design for clip screws is defective, because it relies on screws that are threading into a very thin piece of steel (the liners). That is why we see so many people having problems with them. It is very difficult to tap such a thin piece of steel, and the threads strip out very easily. It would cost less than a dollar more to go to a "screw and threaded sleeve" design for the three clip screws, like they use with the scale screws. We would all appreciate the change.
 
Blade_Hunter said:
That said, I must say that Spyderco's design for clip screws is defective, because it relies on screws that are threading into a very thin piece of steel (the liners). That is why we see so many people having problems with them. It is very difficult to tap such a thin piece of steel, and the threads strip out very easily. It would cost less than a dollar more to go to a "screw and threaded sleeve" design for the three clip screws, like they use with the scale screws. We would all appreciate the change.
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I have to disagree with you there. We are seeing no failures of the screws stripping out the tapped hole which means there is enough thread engagement. Where would you put your thread insert? It needs to fit somewhere between the blade and the outside of the scales so it’d have to be really thin too, so I fail to see the advantages of this, other than being able to replace the insert if it were to strip out. I think they ought to look for a higher grade (or class) screw. We use class 12.9 class (Basically grade 8) screws where I work, and at one point there was a mix up where we got 10.9 instead. We had similar problems with rounding out the torx profiles.

On several of my Spydercos I’ve replaced the factory clip screws with some pan head ones I got from alpha knife supply. Much sturdier screws, have yet to strip one out since I’ve replaced them, and I have no problems with the liners stripping out.
 
Blade_Hunter said:
Spyderco has to warn people that if the repair turns out to be necessitated by damage that happened after the knife left the factory they will charge for it. If you did not know what you were doing (and, no offense, but the scorch marks on the G10 prove that beyond a doubt) you should have just sent it to them. Next time, do that, or use the soldering iron I suggested. From your description of the screw I have to think someone outside the factory tried to "repair" a stripped screw with Loc-Tite or some kind of adhesive.

That said, I must say that Spyderco's design for clip screws is defective, because it relies on screws that are threading into a very thin piece of steel (the liners). That is why we see so many people having problems with them. It is very difficult to tap such a thin piece of steel, and the threads strip out very easily. It would cost less than a dollar more to go to a "screw and threaded sleeve" design for the three clip screws, like they use with the scale screws. We would all appreciate the change.
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The problem isn't the threads in the liner.

A few years ago they were using red Loctite on the hardware and people were stripping out the torx interface. That led to a change with no more red Loctite.

https://forum.spyderco.com/viewtopic.php?t=74060

How to Remove Stubborn Screws from a Knife

According to the manufacturers of Loctite 263, the red Loctite used on Spyderco’s US-made knives, screws treated with it can be removed by applying heat. However, its specifications state that a temperature of more than 360 degrees Fahrenheit must be reached for it to soften. Such temperatures could easily damage the scales and other components of your knife. Instead, we recommend the following process:

1) Ensure that you have the proper size Torx® driver for your screws and that the driver head is in good condition. A single-piece, screwdriver-style driver works best.
2) Place your knife on a workbench or other hard surface. Use a paper towel or rag to protect the handle from scratches.
3) Insert the tip of the Torx driver into the screw head and ensure that it fits properly.
4) Tap the handle of the driver several times with a hammer to “shock” the screw and break the Loctite bond.
5) Maintain a firm, constant, downward pressure on the Torx driver as you rotate it to remove the screw.
6) If this method is not successful on the first try, repeat as necessary or return your knife to Spyderco with $5.00 for return shipping. We will loosen your knife’s screws upon request.
 
Where would I put it? In the end of the handle by the tip. I would eliminate tip-down carry altogether because very few people want it and the wierdos who do could certainly live without it. :)

Say what you want, but threading tiny screws into a thin liner like that, for a pocket clip, is just asking for problems. It would be so simple to make it much more stout.
 
John_0917 said:
Wiha bits actually, but I agree on cheap ones being a bad choice.

I was eventually able to get it off by applying flame and turning the clip round and round (the final screw), here’s the aftermath, scorched G10 and all.

View attachment 1309038 View attachment 1309039 View attachment 1309040

The last screw is the one shown, it’s hard to take a good pic being so small but it had some kind of “substance” all over it and was a darker color black than the others were. Also, it left a sticky black residue in both on the clip and in the screw threads.

Also two things to mention, and coming from me this should say a lot since I’m a huge Spyderco fan and have been around here a long time:

1) Spyderco CS more or less disregarded and dismissed me when I called them and told them something was up. They literally said there was no way it was secured by a chemical and then said they charge for repairs caused by damage.

2) REC never responded to me at all...this is my first and last purchase from them.
Click to expand...

I applaud your effort on taking out that stripped screw but man I would just ask Spyderco to do it (and charge me of whatever they need) instead of burning that g10 scale (I am sure the scale still functions as it should be but visually it is just bad).

As for REC not responding, what do you expect the dealer to do, knowing that you already stripped a screw of a brand new knife?
 
sharp_edge said:
I applaud your effort on taking out that stripped screw but man I would just ask Spyderco to do it (and charge me of whatever they need) instead of burning that g10 scale (I am sure the scale still functions as it should be but visually it is just bad).

As for REC not responding, what do you expect the dealer to do, knowing that you already stripped a screw of a brand new knife?
Click to expand...

The scorch really isn’t that bad in person, I had to use a torch since I don’t have a soldering iron and with corona wasn’t going to go out and get one.

As to REC, I emailed them after I noticed issues but before it got really bad, really all I asked was if they thought I should contact Spyderco or if they can help, my suspicion was/is that there are probably others with QC issues in this run, there’s a pic of one on the official forum that came with a big crack in the scale for example. I wasn’t looking for them to replace it, but any response at all would be nice.
 
John_0917 said:
The scorch really isn’t that bad in person, I had to use a torch since I don’t have a soldering iron and with corona wasn’t going to go out and get one.

As to REC, I emailed them after I noticed issues but before it got really bad, really all I asked was if they thought I should contact Spyderco or if they can help, my suspicion was/is that there are probably others with QC issues in this run, there’s a pic of one on the official forum that came with a big crack in the scale for example. I wasn’t looking for them to replace it, but any response at all would be nice.
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Try to use Mr. Clean eraser you might be able to remove the black spots without removing too much of g10, depending on how deep the burning is.

Email sometimes does not get a response in time or not at all. Next time try to call the dealer (I know I don't like calling on the phone but sometimes I have to).
 
I would do the rest of the scales and then it would be one of kind tiger stripey. I wouldn't have any shame over the marks and think they look neat and unique. If you bought the thing to use, then take a lesson and use it like it was made for.
 
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