Warp factor 8

T

Temper

Joined
Oct 30, 2002
Messages
3,011
Guys,
The Nicholson files came yesterday and I couldnt resist. I did the annealing last night but made one mistake. I had the magnest stuck to the top of my BBQ. When I though it was ready I tried it but it was a little too early. I tried it again when it got to Tangerine orange and it was perfect. I sprinkled some old BBQ ash over the coals, dropped the file on that and then covered it with the remaining ash.
This morning it was nice and soft but there was a little bend in the file, I think it was from when it was almost non magnetic and stuck to the magnet, the force I used to break contact with the magnet must have caused it to bend.
I got on with the drilling and filing and dressing up prior to H.T The H.T went very well, the file just slipped right off it. I was worried that it would have cracked because in my zeal to get the job done I made the edge pretty thin. Seeing that this was fine I looked down the spine and my heart dropped. It was bent not only in the middle of the blade (vering to the left) but also like a Japanese sword, with the two ends higher than the middle, Actually I liked the bend but wasnt sure what caused it (Quench was in RT water, blade was tip in blade down first then submerged)

I tried to reheat the blade and hammer it straight but don't have an anvil or any decent tools for this kind of work. Anway the H.T was F.U.B.A.R.'d by the constant messing, although I did seem to straighten it a bit. I had to re-H.T it and it came out nice and hard again but 10+ hours filing seem to have gone down the drain. Any suggestions for a sure fire way to get it straight again other than hammering it on the floor and doing another H.T?

Actually I'm not too disapointed as it went much better than I thought, but I was looking forward to polishing and putting an edge on it tommorow.
 
It doesnt take much force to straighten a hot blade as you found out it also doesnt take much to bend one either. Redo your heat treatment . This time after you straighten the blade, bring it up to non magnetic and the just let it cool off in still air. Point it towards magnetic North if it makes you feel better to do so. :) Then do the hardening process.
 
Patience,Grashopper!You are learning in 10 hours what it takes many weeks to learn.I don't recall anyone whose first knife came out perfect.You have to normalize the blade before HT.Bring it up to non magnetic and let it cool on the grill grate at least 5 minuites.Do this THREE times.Chech blade each time for any warp,and tap it straight if needed.A 2by4 board and a regular hammer would work in a pinch as your hammer and anvil.Twists can be un-twisted with a pair of crescent wrenches or a wrench and a vise.After the normalization (which releases the stresses that cause warp)clean up again with sandpaper/file ,only as much as needed, and go to HT.I would suggest using olive oil (canola,etc.) or ATF for your quench,rather than water.The "Japanese curve" you got is caused bu the diferent cooling rates of the edge and spine.It is most pronounced in water quenching, however so is twisting and warpage.
All in all you did good for your first attempt.You can re-anneal the blade and rework it,or start on a new file.Practice and patience are the way to become proficient.If it was a cakewalk,everyone would be a bladesmith.I would keep that first blade as a trophy.Who knows,someday it may be the first knife of a famous maker. It will also give you a guage of how far you have come in future years.Good luck,and let us know how you are progressing.
 
Don't listen to Mark,he does a ritual HT dance before every HT.He only forges in the middle of the night on the new moon,and faces his anvil true north.Actually,that HT dance is usually preformed (acompanied with a string of ritual oaths) AFTER a blade warps,usually along with kicking his anvil stand. - Just kidding,Mark.
 
LOL I can see him now, IG relish drooling down his chin and threatening the blade with etching fluid :D


Thanks for the help guys, I will give it a bash at re-H.T and see if I can get it straight. I have 4 other files to play with though so I'm only down some time and blisters, but up a lot of learning :D
 
I knew there was a camera hidden in my shop. I just knew it. Dont forget lots of chicken blood and virgin pee pee.
 
OK I got it pretty much straight with a reheat although the curve is quite fetching so I may just leave it as it is ;) I am also doing a batch of 3 files clamped together with a big g clamp.

I will let the fist version cool and try another H.T with some kind of oil.
 
You would have had better luck if you had waited until a thunderstorm was rolling in (complete with lightening), and made sure that at least one blackbird or crow was on a telephone line near-by.
 
i think a lot of bad 4 letter words helps the process too. ask
"peter nap" i heard someone say he'll be able to tell you the right swear words to get a good straight blade.
:D
 
If you don't know any cuss words,just keep on quenching blades - you'll invent a whole lot of new ones!
 
peter nap" i heard someone say he'll be able to tell you the right swear words to get a good straight blade

I can make them straighten out after they cool. :eek:

Temper, watch how you heat it also. Try to heat the entire thing evenly and slowly. More blades get warped from overheating on one side than any reason I can think of.

If I get a hateful one, I use a Harbor Freight flame thrower clamped in a vise and heat the edge for a while then the spine but not the sides.
 
Well, its done, the HT worked fine in Canola oil and the file seemed to slip off just as well as it had after the water quench. It has a fair bit of dressing up with paper to do and maybe a bit of filing here and there. I got some huge bamboo (scales) that has been lying at the side of my house for a couple of years seasoning and I split a couple of pieces today and rubbed the insides flat on a peice of glass. Its raining at the moment so I can't do much and the boss won't let me work inside the house. Its turned out better than I thought it would, but not as good as I hoped lol. Oh well, I have plenty of files left to butcher :D


Here it is with about 4 million hours worth of polishing to do and scales yet to fit. I got rained off :grumpy:

68977532.jpg
 
Looking pretty darn good so far and I'm enjoying this thread a lot; thanks!
Looking forward to seeing it finished.
Regards,
Greg
 
OK, its needs a little bit more dressing up on the scales but I ran out of paper :rolleyes:

All hand tools (File, Drill and wet and dry paper)

First attempt at a knife

69062265.jpg
 
Temper,

You are doing exactly the right thing by heat treating your own steels. Looks like you got lucky on this file in that it could have been case hardened - but how were you to know without trying. Your knife looks good and usable. As you suggested, the scale profile needs to be rounded to or at the least toward the tang spine for proper hand fit. I think you did very well. In fact the profile is very usable and attractive.

In annealing steels always try to insulate from cooling as best you can (and you did). Also learn as much as you can concerning temperatures and times at temp. for particular steels.

RL
 
Excellent first knife!You have come far,Grasshoppa.A tip on doing the scales-Sand and finish the front edge before final assembly or you will never get the wood smooth and polished at the ricasso.Make a bamboo sheath for that knife,too.It should look awsome.If you need info on making and fitting a wooden sheath ,email me.
 
Thanks guys! I'm pretty pleased with it considering my dismay when I saw the bends after the initial H.T, I'm glad I saw it through to the end.

Lots of lessons learned though

Make sure you have ALL the components you need BEFORE you start to cut, drill or file. The pins are in the wrong place, they should be about 3/4 of an inch behind the forefinger cut out. I did realize this and put a 3mm hole a little back (smaller holes on first pic) I didnt have any pin material though so I didnt want to make them oversize until I could find some type of rod. Luckily I found some ss pins in the hardware shop. I didnt peen them because Bamboo is horribly weak in splitting strength although phenomenally strong otherwise. The scales are drilled tight size, glued and gently tapped on. After the final H.T the tang was so hard I couldnt enlarge the holes enough and had to use the larger holes (I broke 3 bits and couldnt afford to keep breaking them, these were pretty decent bits too but they just wouldn't touch the steel, God knows how hard it is, too hard obviously :footinmou ) This is why there is a Lanyard hole in the first pic and no lanyard in the second, the steel was just too hard to enlarge to 5mm for the sleeve I had. :grumpy:

Make the scales thinner before fitting and as Bladsmth said, do the profiling and finishing before you fit them.

Until I improve my filing, use a liner to take up the space between tang and scale to hide my screw ups :D

I'm pretty much ready to have another bash at something, I will think over another design while on holiday.

Thanks again guys, I appreciate it. :)
 
Hey Mark,
Now that you know there's a camera back there.......better get rid of the goat!!!

And the countdown continues.............................................
 
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