*(^*&%^ warping!!!

WalterDavis

Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider
Joined
Nov 23, 2005
Messages
1,841
Last batch, 6 out of 6:grumpy: It was cold as heck outside (around 0*), but I was hoping that wouldn't make a difference. However, I managed to snap 3 of them trying to straighten them:( I think the other three are salvageable, though.
 
Can't straighten a cold blade. "Snap-goes-the-weasel". Been there, done that, and almost got a T-Shirt.

I'll bet that Delbert can help.

Robert
 
Del,

They're all 1095 3/32" thick and 5/32" thick.

Thanks!
 
You trying to straighten them while they are still heated up? One trick I heard about was after you pull it out of the forge and do a quick dunk check for warpage and then if it is thats when you straighten it. Once it gets to a certain temp you cant straighten it without it snapping.
 
A couple of things I've learned. One, normalize a couple of times before you quench. Two, don't lay them flat on anything solid while they cool. Stick them butt end in the dirt, or stand them on their spines or on a rack. Three, if one warps, sometimes you can straighten it in a tempering cycle. Use clamps and some bar stock. Clamp the blade so that the warped part is a little past straight, then run a temper cycle as usual. Often will be un-warped when you release the clamps.
 
You trying to straighten them while they are still heated up? One trick I heard about was after you pull it out of the forge and do a quick dunk check for warpage and then if it is thats when you straighten it. Once it gets to a certain temp you cant straighten it without it snapping.

That's what I try to do, take out the blades from the quench as soon as it turns black, and try to straighten. However, I find them pretty hard already, and when I do straighten them I find that the blade will go back to its warped shape anyway. For me the solution was to stop using 1095 for thin knives.
 
The interrupted quenching technique is, when used by bladesmiths, a means of approximating a marquench/martemper, but is actually more akin to an industrial timed isothermal quench. The proper place to interrupt is as close to Ms as possible. I am sorry I have to use the technical term “Ms” but to give a precise temp would be misleading as Ms will change with every steel chemistry. But since we are talking about 1095 I will venture the suggestion of 400F (although this could change with different soaking heats before the quench). To interrupt too far above 500F will result in some negative results, some resulting in loss of hardness and others resulting in loss of toughness and hardness.

With 1095 if the interrupt is right at 400F, you should have around three to five minutes to fix any distortion that occurs above 275F, below this you are going to have to get it later. Any corrections I have ever done in metastable austenite were pretty stable an permanent, but the uneven stress conditions that required the initial corrections will continue to influence the 25% martensite that could continue to form after the blade has stiffened too much. Also with 1095 if there is some overheating in the austenization you will also have the annoying problem of delayed conversion after the blade is fully cool, resulting in a warp suddenly appearing in a blade you thought was hardened and cold.

Should you have a warp in a cold blade, fixing at room temp in 1095 could be disastrous. In the dagger class I just taught at Haywood College NC (the one Mace shared pictures of) the steel we were using was 1095 and many of the blades warped when the students took them home for heat treat. Warpage is about the worst to fix in a double edged blade and often results in maker giving up on it. But with a understanding of modulus of elasticity one can use temperature to your advantage. Reheating the blade to 400F will allow much greater corrective actions without fear of snapping the blade. I had students re-temper their blades above 400F and then quickly got on it with a vice, some pins and my gloved hands while they were still hot. You should have seen people scatter and shield their wincing eyes waiting for the inevitable “snap” as I pushed fully hardened dagger blades father than they normally would dare. I just laughed and said that I was not afraid because I had faith in the science! All daggers were completely straightened. I have often mentioned how the modulus of elasticity of steel is a constant, but only at room temperature, at elevated temperatures steel flexes and eventually yields very differently and brittle steels behave in a much more plastic nature allowing you to actually bend them without having to trash their hardness.
 
I've just tempered the blades, warped, pulled them out of the oven, (usually 400F anyway) and with double gloved hands, straightened the blade...throw it back in the oven for another hour or so. I've also gently heated the warped area locally with a propane torch and straightened them, then back in the oven. Not sure if that's right, but it has worked for me. -Matt-
 
Thanks all! I do have one question about an interrupted quench-how do you judge the temperature? I've heard 7 seconds, but I'd guess that with thinner steels (1/8", 3/32") it wouldn't be that long? Any good way to judge without a IR or laser thermometer handy?
 
Not only will the blade thickness greatly effect things but each oil will have a different curve. The 7 second thing often works with #50, other oils would take different times. The due to vapor formations of most oils, the blade should be wet with oil, not dry, with light wisps of smoke comming off.
 
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