Warranties are changing

hhmoore said:
I think that there has been a significant increase in "abusive" treatment of knives.

Batoning with folders?
Spine whack tests on folders
Why are they TRYING to break that knife?[/I].

Personally, I don't feel that a knife company should be responsible for replacing a knife that was intentionally abused to the point of breakage;

mine broke, and they wouldn't help me".
The good PR sells knives...but the downside is that it encourages abusive behavior because there is no consequence, only reward.
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this is the reason why
 
I don't see anything wrong with a light spine whack to make sure that the lock is secure. Spyderco suggests it, I want to be sure that the lock is secure on a knife that I buy. If the lock fails under one or two pounds of impact, there is something wrong with it.

I have a much bigger problem with companies (cough cough spyderco) where it voids the warranty to service my knife. If you don't want people to take apart their knives, either use pinned construction or use proprietary screws.
 
I light spine whack (which can be done with the hand) is one thing - striking with heavy force against a counter, multiple times, is quite another. One is assuring engagement of the lock mechanism, the other is flagrant abuse.
 
hhmoore said:
I understand that you get it; but there's more to it than that.
While some companies offer specific products, or even an entire line, that may be designed for such great use, that doesn't mean every knife they make is suited for those purposes. A warranty is a generalized, encompassing statement for how a company deals with defective product - it doesn't differentiate between the 7" long, 1/4" thick, knife showcased as the do-it-all-knife-to-depend-on-when-your-life-depends-on-it-knife vs the gentleman's slimline, 2.5" folder because-suit-wearing-businessmen-are-real-men-too-knife. It seems the general public isn't smart enough to make those distinctions, either; so the companies have to protect themselves by making additional disclaimers/stipulations. After all, we know darn well that the guy that smashes the spine of his brand new $200 folder (full force against the kitchen counter, 15-20 times) is going to be looking for a free replacement...even though he made a video of himself doing it.
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You will see warranties like that though with cold steel. Their folders are 1 year and their fixed blades are 5. There may be more companies with combinations like this but I haven't researched them yet. It seems pretty common sense though and does send home the message to the consumer, fixed blades and folders do not do the same things. I also feel like for the most part knives can be pretty simple beasts. You can't spot a bad heat treat but you can spot g10 or micarta handles, phosphor bronze bushings in folders, well established steel. I know companies can ruin great materials but I feel like materials represent a great guide for how durable a knife will be.

Part of the reason posted this thread was because I couldn't decide between an esee 4 and a fallkniven f1. The fallkniven f1 only has a 2 year warranty and that kind of kept me up at night I hate to admit. Having used it though I really just don't think it's going to break doing what I do with it, and I feel silly for fearing it's warranty.
 
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Rat Finkenstein said:
It used to be. They changed it. I don't like Cold Steel, but they did improve their warranty.
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Wow, yeah it did. This is the new warranty quote off of their website:

Warranty:

We stand behind our knives and swords 100%. We subject them to the highest standards in the industry and strive to make each as perfect as possible. We warrant that our folding knives, fixed blade sheath knives, and swords are free from defects in workmanship and materials.

That's the full statement, that's it. I kind of read that like, "I guarantee you'll get a nice looking knife."
 
My biggest warranty gripe is not for knife destruction. If you break your knife doing something you shouldn't, it's your fault, not the manufacturer. However, I can't stand a folding knifes warranty becoming null and void from taking it apart to clean. Benchmade and Microtech are two that come to mind. I can understand an auto knife or d/a auto knife, I know its a complicated mass of moving parts so I understand why. But if you are Grayman knives, and you market your knives to be hard use super tough military grade freedom defending knives, you can't also void my warranty for taking it apart.
 
Silvanus said:
My biggest warranty gripe is not for knife destruction. If you break your knife doing something you shouldn't, it's your fault, not the manufacturer. However, I can't stand a folding knifes warranty becoming null and void from taking it apart to clean. Benchmade and Microtech are two that come to mind. I can understand an auto knife or d/a auto knife, I know its a complicated mass of moving parts so I understand why. But if you are Grayman knives, and you market your knives to be hard use super tough military grade freedom defending knives, you can't also void my warranty for taking it apart.
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The number of people who completely f*ck up their knives taking them apart and/or attempting and failing to put them back together again is astonishing. If I were a knife manufacturer, I would do what the knife manufacturers are doing. Too many incompetents out there. :barf:
 
Balls Deep said:
I don't know if the advent of survival tv shows is having an impact on knife warranties or what but ive noticed over time it seems like the warranties are changing.

There used to be several no questions asked warranties on brands like bench made kabar esee spyderco and so on. Some of them downgraded warranties and now you see more the limited life time warranties.

Most recently what I've noticed is that most major companies have included warrant statements around batoning and throwing. So what are thoughts on this? Are knife users getting more abusive? Are companies losing money? Are warranties less necessary because steels are improving?

Warranties are something folks are pretty passionate and so I'm curious about the opinions of the community on this.

To quote the great tommy boys, "if I want a good look at a T-bone steak I could stick my head up a bulls ass, otherwise I could take the butchers word for it." Remember the point of the movie was they couldn't sell oil filters because they didn't have warranties.
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I don't think you've proven your point...
 
Silvanus said:
My biggest warranty gripe is

Grayman knives, and you market your knives to be hard use super tough military grade
you can't also void my warranty for taking it apart.
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this is funny

from Grayman web site on s30v care.
Protecting your S30V Blade

S30V steel can rust.
you're in the field for an extended time and don't have access to any type of oil,
you can rub your index finger on the outside of your nose and wipe it on your blade and that will also work.
It's important that it comes from your nose, it's called nasal sebum and it's actually a by product of the cartilage that sweats through.
Sweat from any other part of the body is corrosive and will speed up the rusting process.


Other things not covered:

- Disassembly-
- Modification-
- Wear and Tear-

To be fair. I understand manufacturers doing this because they have no control.
And if they adress the issues for warranty work on a individaul basis maybe.

But what if they rule against you saying you helped creat the issue or you Exasperated the issue
and your SOL.

Then you cry on the internet..Lawyer up and sue...


People really should man up.

You want your warranty.
Dont do something to void it.


JNewell said:
The number of people who completely f*ck up their knives taking them apart and/or attempting and failing to put them back together again is astonishing. If I were a knife manufacturer, I would do what the knife manufacturers are doing. Too many incompetents out there. :barf:
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The bolded and underlined section represents questions. You don't generally prove a point with questions, you seek answers.
 
All depends on the company. I got a New Hinderer and it had a defect lock up was not good and warped and sent it back they told me it was abuse it was that way out of the box!, they would not warrantee it. Just buy a knife for a reputable company and they should stand behind it do your research. I find most high end company's if there is an issue they are more than happy to fix it.
 
My disassembly gripe isn't only rust, it's more about just general maintenance of my tool. If I drop it in a puddle, get dirt in the pivot area, cut fruit and get juice in the pivot, there is only so much that I can do to clean it without disassembly.
 
No, the point was the warranty didn't matter as much as the integrity of the company behind it.

Case in point: spyderco. Yeah, it's not an absolute warranty. But they will do right, or at least they have for me.

Folding knives aren't meant to throw or baton with. If you do you should understand the risk. I have, with the humble spyderco native, to no ill effect.
 
Silvanus said:
My disassembly gripe isn't only rust, it's more about just general maintenance of my tool. If I drop it in a puddle, get dirt in the pivot area, cut fruit and get juice in the pivot, there is only so much that I can do to clean it without disassembly.
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I think you need to carry fixed blades with no handles. That way you can clean it. :D

Honestly, I have never considered taking apart a knife just like I have never considered taking apart a DA revolver to clean.
 
This thread made me chuckle too. Of course warranties will change, everything does. I once got screwed on a Shun Chef knife that chipped and cracked on the bottom edge, they would only attempt to repair it, twice. No abuse, only slicing and dicing for a few weeks. Always hand washed, towel dried and stored in a Edge Guard. I gave it away to a buddy. Then I got the new Kasumi Damascus Chef knife from chefdepot.com , I love the knife and the so called "Lifetime Warranty" , they promised, bend it break it chip it, free repair / replacement for life. They also give pros a discount so I prefer to shop there.
 
uxo2 said:
S30V steel can rust.
you're in the field for an extended time and don't have access to any type of oil,
you can rub your index finger on the outside of your nose and wipe it on your blade and that will also work. .
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Huh. Use the *outside* of your nose. So that's why it rusted.
 
the only knife warranty experiences I've had were with chris reeve and CRKT, both were pretty outstanding.
 
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