Warren Axe and Tool Company - March Manufacturer Thread

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Post #2 in this thread has a Warren Axe and Tool 1937 catalog page of what I think is for this wedge. They call it a saw wedge. The picture in the catalog shows the opposite side of wedge (from my picture). So I don't have that for comparison. The Michigan saw wedge below it is marked like mine.

Bob
 
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William J. Sager got a patent for his "Process for Treating Metals" in 1895, and this could be the basis for the "Sager Special Chemical Process Axe". The "recipe" is given in the patent document (Patent No. 547,361 dated Oct. 1, 1895):

one part of the prussiate of potash,
one and one half of saltpeter,
two parts of blue vitriol,
two parts of the sal-ammoniac,
one part of concentrated lye,
three parts of salt, and
one part of borate of iron.

The steel is dipped into this mixture before heating during the forging process, as described below:

...into this compound I dip or irnmerse the piece being forged, then heat the piece to a proper temperature, and hammer the same, and repeat this operation as often as may be necessary. By this operation and subjecting the piece being forged to the repeated action of the compound great durability is imparted to the article forged.

The forged metal is later quenched in a water solution with the same chemicals, in different proportions:

I then complete the method by taking the piece thus forged and temper and harden it by subjecting it (after first heating the article or piece to a cherry-red) to a bath composed of the same ingredients as the compound described, but in different proportions and dissolved in Water, the solution standing, preferably, about forty hours before being used. I reduce the article to the desired temper in the well known manner.
 
Some additional information not listed at YesteryearsTools:

Before founding Warren Axe & Tool Co., William J. Sager was connected with the Standard Axe & Tool Works of Ridgway, PA.

from Hardware Dealers' Magazine, Volume 3, 1895, page 364


------------------------------------


Note:
At the YesteryearsTools page about Sager axes, Tom Lomond wrote:
"Information related to William J. Sager prior to his involvement in the Warren Axe & Tool Company is quite sparse. It is known that he worked for or was involved in more than one company associated with the making of axes. One company was in Ohio and the others were in other parts of the Northeast, possibly North eastern New York State. That was prior to 1893 when he, along with three of his sons and his son-in-law founded the Warren Axe & Tool Co."
 
Steve Tall said:
William J. Sager got a patent for his "Process for Treating Metals" in 1895, and this could be the basis for the "Sager Special Chemical Process Axe". The "recipe" is given in the patent document (Patent No. 547,361 dated Oct. 1, 1895):

one part of the prussiate of potash,
one and one half of saltpeter,
two parts of blue vitriol,
two parts of the sal-ammoniac,
one part of concentrated lye,
three parts of salt, and
one part of borate of iron.

The steel is dipped into this mixture before heating during the forging process, as described below:

...into this compound I dip or irnmerse the piece being forged, then heat the piece to a proper temperature, and hammer the same, and repeat this operation as often as may be necessary. By this operation and subjecting the piece being forged to the repeated action of the compound great durability is imparted to the article forged.

The forged metal is later quenched in a water solution with the same chemicals, in different proportions:

I then complete the method by taking the piece thus forged and temper and harden it by subjecting it (after first heating the article or piece to a cherry-red) to a bath composed of the same ingredients as the compound described, but in different proportions and dissolved in Water, the solution standing, preferably, about forty hours before being used. I reduce the article to the desired temper in the well known manner.
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That is quite the mixture. Seems to combine elements of descaling (vitriol), degreasing (lye), bluing and other stuff, and used as a quench. Interesting! The "different" proportions is probably the secret :)!
 
I'm not convinced that the Sager Chemical Process was that great at preserving axes. Many of the old ones I've seen have been deeply pitted.
 
Square_peg said:
I'm not convinced that the Sager Chemical Process was that great at preserving axes. Many of the old ones I've seen have been deeply pitted.
Click to expand...

It very well could accelerate rusting. Offhand it looks a lot like some browning/bluing recipes, which are used to promote rust. If the salt alone in the formula were to remain in surface irregularities, it could draw moisture and cause a pit.
 
BG_Farmer said:
It very well could accelerate rusting. Offhand it looks a lot like some browning/bluing recipes, which are used to promote rust. If the salt alone in the formula were to remain in surface irregularities, it could draw moisture and cause a pit.
Click to expand...

That is exactly what I thought of the recipe when I seen it. Similar to an old fashion rust blue. It does lack the acid that I usually see though.
 
garry3 said:
That is exactly what I thought of the recipe when I seen it. Similar to an old fashion rust blue. It does lack the acid that I usually see though.
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I misread blue vitriol as sulfuric acid (vitriol) initially. It does look like a bluing compound, and I seem to remember copper sulfate (blue vitriol) being an ingredient in some instant blues. I am not much of a chemist, though! No idea what the pH of the brew would be at room temperature or more importantly when flashed to steam when hot forgings were immersed in it.
 
Interesting. If you have ever seen a NOS Warren Sager Chemical, they do have the bluish hue to them, and look as good now as the day they came off the line. Others though vary, but I wouldn't say more that what I have seen with other manufacturers. The pugets I have range in pitting overall, which I think would be normal. I would have to reason that the Sager Chemical Process, like most things axe related in the hey day, was perhaps more marketing than anything else, with some actual benefit to it, maybe. The concoction above is somewhat interesting, but not being a chemist or scientist I don't really know if the ingredients overall make sense for the application.
 
To keep going - as I looked at my 1937 WATCo Catalog - in reference to the Chemical Process -

Tempering - chemical process used, natural gas used which gives the most universal heat for tempering. (so if I read this right, the process should help with the quality of the metal, making it better to withstand flaws, chips, breaks, etc)

Color - natural blue color of the sager is obtained solely from our special tempering process and insures perfect temper (so again more to do with overall quality)

In short - the Sager Patent Axe is he embodiment of all the skill care and life experience of some of the oldest and most prominent axe experts in the country, honestly made, and the quality which we claim is universally recognized.

It is dipped in transparent lacquer to prevent rust, and the color is proof of proper temper.

Interesting piece of axe history none the less
 
I have two 1918 Sager chemicals as well as a couple others. They are not pitted at all. I believe they were the most popular double bits among lumberjacks. Who knows how many were stored improperly over the decades especially the logging camp axes. You would need to do a scientific analysis to get corrosion susceptibility among brands.
 
halfaxe said:
I have two 1918 Sager chemicals as well as a couple others. They are not pitted at all. I believe they were the most popular double bits among lumberjacks. Who knows how many were stored improperly over the decades especially the logging camp axes. You would need to do a scientific analysis to get corrosion susceptibility among brands.
Click to expand...

I do seem to find that most of the Puget sound patterns I see are Sager Chemical axes. I have had a few chemical axes come and go through my hands the past few years. I can not really say that the Sager Chemical axes are better preserved then any other though. If we could leave out the Puget sound pattern though most I come across are much better than average. I do not know what it is but that Puget sound axe is hard to find in good shape. Used hard and put away wet.
 
BG_Farmer said:
I misread blue vitriol as sulfuric acid (vitriol) initially. It does look like a bluing compound, and I seem to remember copper sulfate (blue vitriol) being an ingredient in some instant blues. I am not much of a chemist, though! No idea what the pH of the brew would be at room temperature or more importantly when flashed to steam when hot forgings were immersed in it.
Click to expand...

It seems that the blue vitriol is the acid.https://copersulfatecrystals.wordpress.com/2014/01/17/various-uses-of-blue-vitriol-in-daily-life/
Obviously I am no chemist either.:o But I have mixed a couple of rust bluing solutions(not the hot or instant blues). I had no idea what I was doing, just following recipes.

Makes me wonder if we can not thank the Sager process for are hot and instant gun blues? I have no idea what came first.
 
Here is an old Chemical axe I found at a local junk shop for a couple dollars. It is marked four-pounds and has seen it's share of use.

There seems to be a lot of Chemical axes with this general shape and style.

10509491_759757254115157_871846806064089700_n.jpg
 
garry3 said:
I do seem to find that most of the Puget sound patterns I see are Sager Chemical axes. I have had a few chemical axes come and go through my hands the past few years. I can not really say that the Sager Chemical axes are better preserved then any other though. If we could leave out the Puget sound pattern though most I come across are much better than average. I do not know what it is but that Puget sound axe is hard to find in good shape. Used hard and put away wet.
Click to expand...

Those Puget Sounds in particular didn't have much of a use in the woods once the chainsaw entered the picture. Swampers stayed in the fireboxes and on log truck racks as general purpose tools. Most of the Puget Sounds were left in the back of the shed or leaning against a tree to rust away.
 
Interesting thread. A couple points it brings up for me.
Wonder what type steel Sagers are made of. D2 or similar high chromium steel ??
Mine and a friend who has several, they are remarkably clean for being shed axes. (decades in a damp shed)

Also the comment from 1930s of natural gas fuel for heat treating.
At that time, Did they really have natural gas ? I think that was coal country. Town gas seems more likely. But I dont know if the phrase "Natural Gas" was used for the then common carbon monoxide fuel.

Btw. Love my Sager. Aside its a doublebit, Dunno its pattern.
It was hung upside down & haft cut short to use for throwing. Its quite hard. A file will skate without good pressure.
 
I really doubt D2 even existed back then, we are talking about several decades. And you'd have a pretty much impossible (not hard) time back then sharpening one of those, given the huge carbides this steel has, and the sharpening implements that existed. Abrasion resistance off the charts, compared to regular carbon steel.

Very hard to forge, and forget about forge welding a bit. At higher hardness where it shines, I think it would be impossible not to have it crack at the first swing.
 
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