Warrior Challenge on PBS

Kismet

Kismet

Joined
Jan 30, 2002
Messages
7,269
is a marvelous show. Last night had two men go through the learning and training to the actual combat of Medival Knights. Very educational, and seemingly very accurate. From sword-play to jousting.

I did not know that the blades of Knights were dull and thus one technique of sword-play was to grasp the blade and use the hilt and handle as a bludgeoning weapon.

Catch it if you can.
 
Sounds like a great show. Did they give a reason for using a dull sword? Doesn't seem to make much sense. Reminds me of a movie I saw once where a fellow was training to become a knight, spent a lot of time hacking at a post in a group while the "sergeant" shouted "Left shoulder, right hip" and so on. The recruits then had to hack at the post in the corresponding location. It was a good movie but I can't for the life of me remember the name of it.
 
There was also an episode last week with 8 guys learning to be a (squad) of Roman auxiliaries (non-citizen soldiers). They did some practicing with gladii against wooden posts, but mostly with the tip. They were shown some interesting moves to get around the opponent's shield, or use their own shield as a weapon, etc. Also interesting to see the impact one could generate with the sheild by running into someone. However it was not as good as another show, maybe 4 months ago on PBS, which was more living&learning history about a Roman legion. They camped for about a week in wintertime in England, and worked on all the Roman legionnaries skills. It was very interesting to see the historians change their opinions about some things when the soldiers actually tried to build a palisade, etc.

Another interesting show was Pioneer Quest, two couple living for a year with 1880s technology in rural Manitoba. Very intesting show since they have to stay the whole winter, and also they can hunt, both unlike the US version called Frontier House. The younger lady is almost identical to a family friend, and all of them are very similar to my relatives back in Canada, most of whom are farmers in Manitoba. I told my wife that if we got in trouble here we'd go back to Canada and live like that on a remote corner of a relative's farm. After she saw the 5 months of winter she wasn't so sure...
 
I've seen a similar show on the History Channel right after Mail Call on Sunday nights called Conquest.
The host of the show does many different themes from the Roman and the Gladius to the Rapier in Europe during its time of popularity.
There was also a show about learning how to dogfight with WW II similar aircraft.
I find Conquest both informative and entertaining and recommend it for anyone interested in different styles of combat.

I also Like Mail Call, but for different reasons. R. Lee Ermey was forced to retire from the Marines after being wounded in Nam. His portrayal of a gunny D.I. leaves a little to be desired, but it comes across as funny to me.

You can read more about him here

Here's some of the Conquest shows that have been aired.:)

CONQUEST: Bow & Arrow -- December 29, 2002 -- History Channel - Saturday , April 5, 1:30 PM-2:00 PM


CONQUEST: The Axeman Cometh -- History Channel -- Saturday , April 19, 1:30 PM-2:00 PM

CONQUEST: Knight in Armor -- Sunday, Jan . 26, 10:30 PM -- History Channel -


CONQUEST: Bull Riding -- Sunday , February 09 10:30 PM-11:00 PM -- History Channel --


CONQUST: The Duel -- Sunday , February 16 10:30 PM-11:00 PM -- History Channel

CONQUEST: Weapons of the Gladiators -- Sunday , February 23 10:30 PM-11:00 PM -- History Channel --

CONQUEST: Air Combat - Sunday, March 16 10:30 PM-11:00 PM - History Channel - Monday , March 31, 8:30 PM-9:00 PM; Tuesday , April 1, 12:30 AM-1:00 AM

CONQUEST: Unarmed Combat -- April, 2003 -- Sunday, April 6, 10:30 PM-11:00 PM ; Monday, April 7, 2:30 AM-3:00 AM; Monday, April 21, 8:30 PM-9:00 PM; Tuesday, April 22, 12:30 AM-1:00 AM

CONQUEST: Stone Age Weapons -- April, 2003 -- Monday, April 7, 8:30 PM-9:00 PM; Tuesday, April 8, 12:30 AM-1:00 AM
 
well that is true for the weapons of the tourney. The blunted swords, axes, lances, and spears were "rebated" that is, they had their edges removed rounded to be dull. People still suffered nasty wounds from these weapons in tourney. (Tourney armor was also often made from a heavier gauge of metal, or from old battle armor that was reinforced with extra "trauma" plates. This greatly increased the lifespan of the competitors.)

Battlefield weapons were most certainly sharp, even into the late medieval period. their edge geometry did get more obtuse in later times, but they were still sharp. At least the ones I handled in England at Tower Armory and a few other castles were.

The ability to 'safely' grasp a 'live steel' blade came from the thick canvas or leather gloves or mitts, often lined with a fine mesh of mail. Also, gauntlets (the clamshell kind, not the silly "finger" gauntlets) were designed to arc over the hand by about an inch, so if the gauntlet you were wearing took an imapct, the force was transferred to the haft or hilt, not hand. Additionally, when you gripped the haft of the waepon, the gauntlet kinda locks into place around the haft. With this in mind you can see that there was not as much risk in holding the blade, other than you might scratch/ding it up with yer gauntlets.

For the record, I think the blade grasping technique is a bit silly, if you wanted a club you shoulda brought one instead! You could really damage the hilt/guard/tang of a sword with that stunt.

Keith
 
Saw a cool conquest last week actually. It was SWAT training. Very informative. Showed the team go through a crash course in SWAT training followed by a finale of actually doing a mock raid on a building with real SWAT guys posing as perps. That was the first I had seen, think I'll be looking for that one in the future.

I also caught the one on PBS, was neat to see some of the tricks they used, and how good the mobility actually is on a suit of armor if it was made for you and after you practice in it heavily. The "expert" they had there didn't look like his movement was restricted much at all.

Verax
 
For the record, I think the blade grasping technique is a bit silly, if you wanted a club you shoulda brought one instead! You could really damage the hilt/guard/tang of a sword with that stunt.
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I agree with you, these swords were certainly not dull unless they were to be used in later tournaments (the early tournament used live weapons). The whole grasping of the blade thing appears to have been a common practice, but only as part of a fluid system for close quarters combat. The idea was not to turn the sword into a club, but to have the ability to inflict damage with every possible part of the weapon, to maximize the amount of pressure on the opponent. It wasn't enough to just parry the blade, you now had to worry about an opponent who might continue his follow through and crush you skull with the sword's pommel or cross guard.

n2s
 
Hey! I watched that show last night too!

Very interesting how one guy seemed to be able to move about freely in his armor while the other one struggled with every step.
 
yes. Having fought some melees with greatsword tho, you can't easily score a killing/diasabling blow that way. Best to control the engragement range, or bind their weapon arm up with the press. If you press, then they resist, you can use leverage agains the opponent, or spring back for a freebie shot on the way out. Unless he's got a shield...

Keith
 
Originally posted by MadMark
Reminds me of a movie I saw once where a fellow was training to become a knight, spent a lot of time hacking at a post in a group while the "sergeant" shouted "Left shoulder, right hip" and so on. The recruits then had to hack at the post in the corresponding location. It was a good movie but I can't for the life of me remember the name of it.
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I do believe that was "The Black Shield of Falworth", with Tony Curtis. Tony is being trained to be a knight by 'Sir James' - the guy with the eye patch? Not an Academy Award winner of a movie, but I've always liked it.
 
Heheh, I think I must have seen Black Shield of Falworth about 10 times on TV as a kid.
Not the best nor most accurate movie, but when you're <12, who cares?:)
 
yep. Like Tony Curtis and Kirk Douglas in "The Vikings." Oh, and don't forget Ernest Borgnine as Ragnar.

Actually, the vikings is based loosely on a few actual folk, and a few actual occurrences. I say "Based" and used it loosely, as did they.

Keith
 
history channel kix ass :)
i love conquest: the ones about weapons... although i liked the one on bull riding as well... but mostly i love the weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeepons! :D

I also love ht ehistory channel bcs I think that its such an amazing resource to have WW2 vets still alive telling the world stories about probably the most critical and epic war in the history of mankind.

when those vets die off the world would have lost a great asset.

I also love all the other vet stories from the other wars as well... some of that stuff just blows my mind...

its a shame that the youths of the america (for the most part) dont find it fascinating... im 24 now.. but ive been watching the History channel religiously since i was 18... I alsways loved learning about history and its a shame that people my age are more concerned about whether ross and rachael will hook back up on "friends" (which one of the dumbest shows in its own right; well then again.. every comedy sitcom seems downhill since seinfeld... at least southpark and simpsons and comedy central is still around to make me laugh :) )
 
When I got my DelTin 2142 they included a VHS tape showing use of hand-and-a-half and two handed swords. One use of left had ahead of the guard was when the opponent was down, giving a full strength stab down and through the opponent's mail right under the ribs.

Also the part of the sword immediately in front of the guard for 8-10 inches with the longer 37" to 45" blades could have well been left unsharpened. Remember the Braveheart Walace sword pre claidh-beg or claidh-mor ( spelling uncertain ) with it's leather wrapped blade in the area mentioned.

War swords weren't the everyday carry. But when the keep was broken into, you didn't stop and take out a smaller sword for inside fighting. The weak hand forward was a counter to fighting in confined spaces.

But then I'm sure someone else has used their sword while their significant other was away and swept up the evidence from the carpet so the spouse of the house wouldn't look up at the slice in the ceiling.
 
Just a bump to say that a Warrior Challenge about Vikings is to be shown tonight at 8 in my area on PBS.
 
Thanks mPisi! I almost missed it tonight. The knights one was good, I want to see Vikings and Gladiators!
 
Thanks to Havoc & Uncle Bill for the title of that movie. I'll see if the local video store can find a copy. I haven't seen it since I was a sprog.
Cheers, Mark
Edited to add: Which people and events did they loosely base "The Vikings" on, Ferrous? I've never seen that one. "The Warlord" with Charlton Heston was another good one.
 
Bump to say that the Warrior Challenge with gladiators is on tonight at least locally.
 
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