Was this self-defense?

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I don't see anything a reasonable person would perceive as a deadly threat. I don't believe the employee feared for their life (partially based on his comments on a reddit "Ask Me Anything" he started). I don't think the employee was even particularly concerned about the merchandise. The employee certainly wasn't concerned about morals or ethics. Not a good outcome in my book, and certainly not a justified one. Being aggressed against or wronged doesn't give you carte blanche to retaliate to whatever extent is available to you.

People shouldn't rob stores, and people shouldn't act with complete and casual disregard for human life. Maybe just me.

I don't see how it's lawful in any case.
 
Two masked robbers come into your shop ...then act aggressively stupid .

Came behind the counter . This is huge NONO ! Basically the equivalent of a home invasion for a small business space .

I'm just sorry both these A-holes didn't get their just reward . Society would be better served , IMO .

Put yourself in the shoes of a small shop business owner / counter clerk having to deal with this kind of BS ! :mad::thumbsdown::thumbsdown:

This kind of menacing behavior is not a joke .

I would very likely have shot both these two freaking idiots even before the counter jumping .

The more society condones such behavior , the worse it will become . Is that the world you want to live in ?

Reap what you sow !
 
DocJD said:
Two masked robbers come into your shop ...then act aggressively stupid .

Came behind the counter . This is huge NONO ! Basically the equivalent of a home invasion for a small business space .

I'm just sorry both these A-holes didn't get their just reward . Society would be better served , IMO .

Put yourself in the shoes of a small shop business owner / counter clerk having to deal with this kind of BS ! :mad::thumbsdown::thumbsdown:

This kind of menacing behavior is not a joke .

I would very likely have shot both these two freaking idiots even before the counter jumping .

The more society condones such behavior , the worse it will become . Is that the world you want to live in ?

Reap what you sow !
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Agreed, 110% on all points.
 
Carboniferous said:
I don't see anything a reasonable person would perceive as a deadly threat. I don't believe the employee feared for their life (partially based on his comments on a reddit "Ask Me Anything" he started). I don't think the employee was even particularly concerned about the merchandise. The employee certainly wasn't concerned about morals or ethics. Not a good outcome in my book, and certainly not a justified one. Being aggressed against or wronged doesn't give you carte blanche to retaliate to whatever extent is available to you.

People shouldn't rob stores, and people shouldn't act with complete and casual disregard for human life. Maybe just me.

I don't see how it's lawful in any case.
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What if these guys showed up at YOUR home or small business ...would it be so OK then ? :rolleyes:

I want to make very clear that this is no trivial matter . Many small shop owner /operators are injured or even killed by robbers .

Even if the the "only" loss is merchandise / financial , that can eventually kill a small business . It's NOT OK !!!

Small businesses are usually marginal at best . They cannot afford to be robbed . This is their livelihood . Their lifeblood .
 
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DocJD said:
What if these guys showed up at YOUR home or small business ...would it be so OK then ? :rolleyes:
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I think that would be a sufficiently different case that I'd condone a different set of responses. Would you agree that it is, at least, not an exactly identical situation?

I understand being upset about crime. I don't think theft qualifies for the death penalty. Again, maybe just me.

Is this forum about laws relating to knives or is it about justice porn and uncritical analysis based on outrage? As far as lawful self defense goes, lethal force typically requires a reasonable expectation of death or severe injury. I think it's implausible that there was such reasonable expectation in this case. I don't believe it was lawful.
 
Carboniferous said:
I think that would be a sufficiently different case that I'd condone a different set of responses. Would you agree that it is, at least, not an exactly identical situation?

I understand being upset about crime. I don't think theft qualifies for the death penalty. Again, maybe just me.

Is this forum about laws relating to knives or is it about justice porn and uncritical analysis based on outrage? As far as lawful self defense goes, lethal force typically requires a reasonable expectation of death or severe injury. I think it's implausible that there was such reasonable expectation in this case. I don't believe it was lawful.
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Read my edit . Please !

There is the law as written and the law as exists in the real world ... not the same at all .

Then there is behavior consistent with the survival of a civilization ...or its demise .

Decide what world you want your children to live in . To work behind the counter in .
 
The problem is that things go from robbery to murder in a fraction of a second. It is inhumane and unhuman to expect someone (the true victim) to have to wait until it is too late to realize that they are about to be murdered, to react. People have been killed for much less than tobacco/vapor, I remember a case in the 90's where someone was murdered in a robbery that yielded 50¢..literally murdered over 50¢. People have been murdered for sneakers and even gold teeth. There is likely thousands of confirmed cases that support robberies can and often do result in murder. The simple solution is don't create a threatening situation if you don't want to deal with the consequences. When you choose to victimize someone you waive your rights at least in a sane world.
 
I watched OP video again .

Two masked men come in . Smaller guy has what might be a covered up gun , pointed out in front .

This is not a children's Halloween party .

Clerk did still not physically react until robber crossed the over the counter .

It was staged as an armed robbery , IMO .

If this is allowed to happen without fighting back ...what comes next ?
 
There was no imminent danger of death or grievous bodily harm. The one who jumped the counter clearly didn't even head for the clerk at first. Besides, both of those guys looked like they could have been effortlessly flicked away like the little snots they are, and were, respectively. Fight back in defense of property, yes. With lethal force, in the case above? You have to be outta your mind.
 
I would say this is definitely in the self defence realm for me. If there is legitimate grounds for fearing ones life may be at risk.
Here is an example from the UK of not self defence;
www.bbc.com

Halewood man who killed burglar after seeing break-in via Ring doorbell jailed

Karl Townsend stabbed Jordan Brophy to death after seeing him breaking into his home on a phone app.
www.bbc.com
TL;DR
Guy sees people breaking into his home through a security camera app, drives home and sets to the burglars with a knife.
 
Automatically there is a disparity of two on one. The short guy appears to either have a gun or intentionally making appear as though he has one. The situation could have easily turned deadly for the clerk. How long is he supposed to wait? Until he is on his last breath, bleeding from the bullet wound of the gun that very well could be and certainly was explicity implied to be being weilded by the short guy?

Not that any of that even matters, because as discussed in another thread; unarmed, one (01) punch murders are actually common. Case after case after case with video documentation proves this. As a matter of fact a high profile single punch murder occured in that very city. Any physical threat (even implied) is a potentially deadly threat that one would be wise to notice and react to in the interest of self preservation.

Where are these inhumane and unhuman expectations coming from? How many truly innocent people have to die due to artificial handicaps imposed by armchair warriors?
 
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