I watched a video on Youtube of a guy thrusting an Endura 4 into cardboard while exerting reverse pressure on the blade,it folded every time.Is this a common problem,or cause for concern?I just ordered a Blue Endura 4 ffg with plain edge and was just wondering.I don't forsee myself doing any thrusting like that with my Endura,but it still made me wince a bit when it folded.
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Watched a review video of an Endura 4 lock failure with reverse pressure on the blade
- Thread starter GRIM 62
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Been using spyderco lockbacks pretty much daily for the last 15 years, mostly a first generation Endura. They're quite possibly the most reliable lock I've ever used, this means Axis, button, axial, frame, and linerlocks from microtech, benchmade, spyderco, US made Camillus, Buck, etc. Linerlocks in particular have a tendency to be difficult to make right, or tend to unlock themselves during "hard use" due to design issues. You CAN make a spyderco midlock (and pretty much any lock) fold if you know some tricks, but it's been my experience that unless you try on purpose it's not going to happen in real world use. The endura 4 has a Boye detent, the small round cutout on the exposed lock bar that makes doing this even more unlikely than with my first generation endura.
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I can't picture how one could make a lock fail from thrusting a knife in cardboard while exerting that much reverse pressure???
Sounds like he didn't know what he was doing, or he was trying to cause it to fail. I've got an old Endura, and I can't imagine a way I could use it to make the lock fail. A little common sinse goes a long way.
Don't read to much into these online vids, and get yourself an Endura if you are wanting one. Great knife, and the lock is plenty strong.
Sounds like he didn't know what he was doing, or he was trying to cause it to fail. I've got an old Endura, and I can't imagine a way I could use it to make the lock fail. A little common sinse goes a long way.
Don't read to much into these online vids, and get yourself an Endura if you are wanting one. Great knife, and the lock is plenty strong.
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Here's how. I've created two visual aids with the assistance of my Salt-1. One of these grips will make a lock fail when you exert so much force it physically destroys the knife. The other one you can fail just squeezing a bit harder and letting gravity do the unlocking for you.
edit: I should note that with spyderco's design, in both cases cutting yourself is pretty hard to do as the unsharpened straight choil will hit your index finger and stop the blade.
edit: I should note that with spyderco's design, in both cases cutting yourself is pretty hard to do as the unsharpened straight choil will hit your index finger and stop the blade.
yablanowitz
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It is also quite possible that the person posting the video had already spine-whacked the lock to death. Some people shouldn't be allowed to have sharp objects. A lot of them post Youtube videos to prove it.
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Knives are used to cut, not be clown around with. I can assure you that if you use the knife to cut things with, the lock will hold up just fine. Should you decide that yu knife wants to be a hammer, screw driver, prybar, or any other object; the results might differ.
I agree with Jack, some folks aren't very reasonable when it comes to certain things.
Quoted for truth.
This would be my guess too. You can make back locks fail easily by spine whacking them. Dirt and junk in the lock can do it too. The internets are chock full of idiots destroying knives by using them as hammers and wrecking bars.
Folding knives are made for convenience of carry, if one desires a knife that has zero chance of lock failure no matter how it's used... It's called a fixed blade.
You posted about a spyderco. Your post is thus obviously full of bull because we know that...
A. Spyderco's are perfect
B. That if it failed the guy had to have broken it first and that
C. Knives aren't supposed to stab things,that is the job of dedicated stabby-ma-bobbers and has been since the dawn of time.
tonystl
Gold Member
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I'm sure the knife will be fine.
What I find amusing about a lot of youtube "knife reviewers" is instead of contacting the company and sending the knife in for repairs, if it even needs any, is they decide instead to make a low-quality cell phone video of them mumbling their way through explaining the supposed problem. A lock can fail, especially if the knife is used incorrectly. You may have found a video made by someone who just got into knives. As such they probably don't have as much experience using them as they should before they start making videos "reviewing" knives.
These same people shouldn't be let anywhere near a Case knife (or any traditional, non-locking slipjoint type knife). If they can't use a knife with a lock properly I'm sure they'd lose a finger in the first 5 minutes with a slipjoint while they trust it into cardboard or whatever.
This isn't the video the OP is talking about (there's no cardboard thrusting) but this is what I mean by inexperienced knife users making "video." Note: I watched this with the sound off but I'm sure I didn't miss anything worthwhile. If I held ANY of my knives like that I think my outcome would be a little different.
[video=youtube;zhGBUSRETWo]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zhGBUSRETWo[/video]
What I find amusing about a lot of youtube "knife reviewers" is instead of contacting the company and sending the knife in for repairs, if it even needs any, is they decide instead to make a low-quality cell phone video of them mumbling their way through explaining the supposed problem. A lock can fail, especially if the knife is used incorrectly. You may have found a video made by someone who just got into knives. As such they probably don't have as much experience using them as they should before they start making videos "reviewing" knives.
These same people shouldn't be let anywhere near a Case knife (or any traditional, non-locking slipjoint type knife). If they can't use a knife with a lock properly I'm sure they'd lose a finger in the first 5 minutes with a slipjoint while they trust it into cardboard or whatever.
This isn't the video the OP is talking about (there's no cardboard thrusting) but this is what I mean by inexperienced knife users making "video." Note: I watched this with the sound off but I'm sure I didn't miss anything worthwhile. If I held ANY of my knives like that I think my outcome would be a little different.
[video=youtube;zhGBUSRETWo]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zhGBUSRETWo[/video]
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I bought a used Endura recently. Seen a lot of work. Still works great so dont sweat it.
Here is some thoughts from a previous member on the forum that was known for some umm....pushing the design limits of the knife for you.
Action and Lock strength/security
The Endura has the same lock as found on the Delica and the action and security was was much the same. There are no issues with spine whacks, and is it stable under white knuckling and torques. However lockbacks have been noted to fail due to debris contaminating the lock bar cutout so the Endura was placed in a cloth bag with a cup full of lint from a dryer. The bag was shaken violently for thirty seconds and then the knife opened and the engagement checked visually and then with a spine impact on a piece of wood :
Image hosted by Photobucket.com
After the first period of shaking there was visible lint in and around the lock but it was not until the sixth round of shaking that the lint caused the lock to not engage fully and and a slight gap was seen, however the engagement was still secure. After the eight round the lock bar jammed and failed to engage. With the blade fully opened, the lock bar could be seen to be a full eight of an inch above the handle due to a significant amount of lint in the notch and in the general pivot area.
The knife was cleaned in seconds using a toothpick to remove the lint, the lock then engaged normally and passed all tests of strength and security. The lint bag shaking was repeated a few more times. Once lock engagement failed after six shakings, and once it took until ten. About eight seemed to be the average point at which the engagement would outright fail or at least strength would be compromised. In short it is readily possible for the lock bar to jam with pocket lint but it seems to take fairly extreme circumstances.
This aspect was also looked at from the point of view of general debris, and the ease of cleaning with a more aggressive form of debris. The knife was placed in a small box with enough soot from a wood stove to cover the Endura completely and the box shaken for ten seconds. With a light rap of the knife on a piece of wood the lock would again engage as normal. The lock bar was then hand packed with soot :
Image hosted by Photobucket.com
Again just a sharp rap and the knife was fine, a half a dozen times showed no net effect. Finally water was used to make a paste which was hand packed around the pivot and then rubbed all over the handle :
Image hosted by Photobucket.com
A sharp rap and again the knife was fine, the muddy handle was also secure in hard stabs and thrusts. Cleaning took some rinsing, and using the run off from the soap used to clean the hands, the handle was fine in a few minutes. The action of the knife was not adversely effected by the contamination.
Here is some thoughts from a previous member on the forum that was known for some umm....pushing the design limits of the knife for you.
Action and Lock strength/security
The Endura has the same lock as found on the Delica and the action and security was was much the same. There are no issues with spine whacks, and is it stable under white knuckling and torques. However lockbacks have been noted to fail due to debris contaminating the lock bar cutout so the Endura was placed in a cloth bag with a cup full of lint from a dryer. The bag was shaken violently for thirty seconds and then the knife opened and the engagement checked visually and then with a spine impact on a piece of wood :
Image hosted by Photobucket.com
After the first period of shaking there was visible lint in and around the lock but it was not until the sixth round of shaking that the lint caused the lock to not engage fully and and a slight gap was seen, however the engagement was still secure. After the eight round the lock bar jammed and failed to engage. With the blade fully opened, the lock bar could be seen to be a full eight of an inch above the handle due to a significant amount of lint in the notch and in the general pivot area.
The knife was cleaned in seconds using a toothpick to remove the lint, the lock then engaged normally and passed all tests of strength and security. The lint bag shaking was repeated a few more times. Once lock engagement failed after six shakings, and once it took until ten. About eight seemed to be the average point at which the engagement would outright fail or at least strength would be compromised. In short it is readily possible for the lock bar to jam with pocket lint but it seems to take fairly extreme circumstances.
This aspect was also looked at from the point of view of general debris, and the ease of cleaning with a more aggressive form of debris. The knife was placed in a small box with enough soot from a wood stove to cover the Endura completely and the box shaken for ten seconds. With a light rap of the knife on a piece of wood the lock would again engage as normal. The lock bar was then hand packed with soot :
Image hosted by Photobucket.com
Again just a sharp rap and the knife was fine, a half a dozen times showed no net effect. Finally water was used to make a paste which was hand packed around the pivot and then rubbed all over the handle :
Image hosted by Photobucket.com
A sharp rap and again the knife was fine, the muddy handle was also secure in hard stabs and thrusts. Cleaning took some rinsing, and using the run off from the soap used to clean the hands, the handle was fine in a few minutes. The action of the knife was not adversely effected by the contamination.
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I think spine wacking a knife would make about as much sense as dryfiring a compound bow. I have had lint in my locking mechanism with my 20+ year old endura (broken clip) on one occasion. I realized there was a problem when I did not hear the audible lockback click, so no safety issues. Simple solution: lockbacks do not belong loose in the pocket, lock facing down.
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I can frequently disengage the lock on my Endura based on my hand, how I grip, where the lock is on the knife, and the fact that after being EDCed for 2+ years the detent is weak. It was an issue that led to me retiring the Endura. That being said - it is 100% user error. I can use the knife just fine even now, as I am aware of what the problem is and simply do not do it.
However even if I do not get a rogue finger on the lock, if I just "squeeze" the knife hard enough in my grip, my hand disengages the lock. Forget the spine whacks, easily 75% of the videos I've seen of lock failure come from people who mistakenly disengage their own lock.
However even if I do not get a rogue finger on the lock, if I just "squeeze" the knife hard enough in my grip, my hand disengages the lock. Forget the spine whacks, easily 75% of the videos I've seen of lock failure come from people who mistakenly disengage their own lock.
Yeah,I figured the guy on the video must have somehow abused his knife in the first place.I have an old Police model,Chinook 1,2 Calypso Jrs,Rescue,and a 1st gen Military,and have never had an issue with any in terms of quality.I still have great faith in Spydercos products.I'm looking forward to my Enduras arrival in a couple of days.No,I don't perform abusive knife tests,just wondered if anyone else saw the video and what their opinions were.It was under Spyderco Endura 4 reviews,their were a bunch,most of them quite favorable.If I could post a link,I would.If I got anyone unduly excited about this I'm truly sorry
.Anyway,thanks for all your answers.
.Anyway,thanks for all your answers.
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- Jan 24, 2008
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:thumbup: :encouragement:
When exactly are you going to be putting that much negative pressure on a blade?
Considering that should never be done with any type of folding knife makes this 'lock failure' ridiculous as are most any other 'lock failure' videos IMHO.
I would never ever have a need to draw the blade upwards like that. Unless your talking about a double edged spear point it makes absolutely zero sense to do so.
That being said, the lock on my Delica has been one of the most reassuring locks that I currently own. The only one that surpasses it is the compression lock due to the fact that it's wedged between the tang and stop pin.
Also, on a Spyderco, even if the blade somehow folds downwards, you have the choil (finger or not) on nearly every single model they sell that will be hitting your fingers first, and not the cutting edge, which is how many fold a Spyderco lockback one handed.
Considering that should never be done with any type of folding knife makes this 'lock failure' ridiculous as are most any other 'lock failure' videos IMHO.
I would never ever have a need to draw the blade upwards like that. Unless your talking about a double edged spear point it makes absolutely zero sense to do so.
That being said, the lock on my Delica has been one of the most reassuring locks that I currently own. The only one that surpasses it is the compression lock due to the fact that it's wedged between the tang and stop pin.
Also, on a Spyderco, even if the blade somehow folds downwards, you have the choil (finger or not) on nearly every single model they sell that will be hitting your fingers first, and not the cutting edge, which is how many fold a Spyderco lockback one handed.
kreole
Gold Member
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- Jul 23, 2009
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- 4,125
There are definitely analogs to how it failed in the video pressing down on the spine. I could see cutting into something tough enough that it takes some effort to pull the blade out (drywall maybe), and then as it's getting pulled out the spine whacks something else nearby (like a wall beam, to consider the drywall example).
That said, I had an Endura 4, and it locked up good and secure, nothing like that video.
My Wife has been carrying a Calypso Jr for 11 years,and has used it to cut up hundreds of cardboard boxes at work with no problems with lock failure.In fact,that's her favorite knife period,and I've given her lots of blades over the years.I bought my Police model some 22 years ago and used it at work for 5 years with no failures of any kind.So yeah,I trust em'.
yablanowitz
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It sounds like someone got up on the wrong side of the bed this morning.
a) No, they are not perfect, but they are pretty good. Lock failures are not normal, although inadvertant disengagement due to operator error is tough to engineer out of a folding knife.
b) Not a certainty, but it wouldn't be a first either. Not just Spyderco knives either, there have been videos of Axis lock Benchmades failing posted on Youtube as well.
c) Now that you mention it, there are certainly better tools for the job. If you need to stab a lot of cardboard, I suggest a nice spear.