Water Filters and Purifiers (bottles, straws and in-line)

So he claimed. Maybe he did it wrong. maybe he's one of the kind of guys that the price point makes it disposable. I don't really know. None of the reviews I've read have had estimates of how much water or the water condition. I've made my feelings about sawyer in general known, and I don't have any more info that is helpful at this point, so I'll leave it there. I'm not being helpful to that part of the discussion, so I'll drop it.

Phoynix said:
Copper research extract.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3312355/

Silver research extract.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25145073
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/next/tech/silver-nanoparticles-could-give-millions-microbe-free-drinking-water/
Click to expand...


As for silver and copper treatment, even if they work for bacteria, I couldn't find anything regarding efficacy against parasites, CDC says there isn't good research for colloidal silver, http://wwwnc.cdc.gov/travel/yellowbook/2014/chapter-2-the-pre-travel-consultation/water-disinfection-for-travelers I don't have the time right now to wade through all the pseudo-science that came up in the initial searches. Also sorting though the pure silver vs. colloidal silver. My concern with both would be knowing that your concentration would be high enough to kill everything, without adding so much to your system that it caused problems. Since parasites are probably the most dangerous, and easiest to filter out, it seems a no-brainer to me to filter the parasites, and then if needed treat the other concerns based on local factors. But under the conditions in the links, Stored water, potential for filtering out parasites, largest concern as human waste contamination, it has some definite value. keeping in mind there is a massive difference between having a coin, and a container as far as surface area goes. So not necessarily a bad idea, I would just want to be very sure on my math before relying on it. And in the woods, parasites are my main concern, bacteria second, not to say that's always the case, or that I even know what I'm talking about.
I've heard the coin in the milk thing before, no idea if it holds true, I also know people had a much higher tolerance for slightly spoiled milk back then. Also, If you have a cow, its fresh milk everyday, so I'm a bit confused as to where everyone was getting their milk from if not enroute? Not saying its not true, it just doesn't seem like it would be a concern. in principal it probably does work. Its like these bags I have to store open wine in. They claim to keep wine good for three weeks. Damned if a bottle lasts three days around here!
 
I'm not advocating silver as a primary means of disinfection...(unless its is a properly made ion filter which incidently silver is the active element in many such filters)

Since the times of classical Greece silver has been known to fight disease, stop people getting sick, We know that the common idea silver fought disease is not a myth and has a very sound basis in fact. Fact backed up with modern medical research and in hospitals where silver doped bandages, silver plated catheters and more are used to stop/fight infections, our ancestors to put it crudely knew their shit. Further while copper was known to work silver was known to work better... research shows this also is true.

In developed countries both copper and silver is very easy to come by, many people carry stirling silver jewelery and electrical wires in houses are often pure copper.

Lets say you suffer a flood... floods provide the worst conditions for waterborne diseases and most water sources end up being contaminated and undrinkable without treatment due to runoff contamination...
Almost impossible to start a fire in such a situation and you could be left with none of your standard equipment... Filters dont work very well if they have had the outflow flooded with contaminated water due to being completely submerged in flood waters. Equipment could be smashed around as its carried off by flood waters exposing purification tablets and rendering them useless... In such situations even if you dont have any jewelery its likely you will find others(or bodies) that do... stripping copper wire and making a bushel out of it that you can drop into a small water container could also work...

Simply knowing silver/copper can sterilize could save a persons life, and protozoa pathogens that have cysts generally require an animal in the life cycle(did find a publication that found silver killed giardia cysts), while many bacteria can multiply in the actual water itself making water that was drinkable just a few hours previous dangerous.


Today you can buy a filter, or tablets... and they will generally do what they claim they can do, no worries... its the times when you lose, it breaks down or dont have such equipment that information that has become esoteric proves useful and relevant.

gadgetgeek said:
So he claimed. Maybe he did it wrong. maybe he's one of the kind of guys that the price point makes it disposable. I don't really know. None of the reviews I've read have had estimates of how much water or the water condition. I've made my feelings about sawyer in general known, and I don't have any more info that is helpful at this point, so I'll leave it there. I'm not being helpful to that part of the discussion, so I'll drop it.




As for silver and copper treatment, even if they work for bacteria, I couldn't find anything regarding efficacy against parasites, CDC says there isn't good research for colloidal silver, http://wwwnc.cdc.gov/travel/yellowbook/2014/chapter-2-the-pre-travel-consultation/water-disinfection-for-travelers I don't have the time right now to wade through all the pseudo-science that came up in the initial searches. Also sorting though the pure silver vs. colloidal silver. My concern with both would be knowing that your concentration would be high enough to kill everything, without adding so much to your system that it caused problems. Since parasites are probably the most dangerous, and easiest to filter out, it seems a no-brainer to me to filter the parasites, and then if needed treat the other concerns based on local factors. But under the conditions in the links, Stored water, potential for filtering out parasites, largest concern as human waste contamination, it has some definite value. keeping in mind there is a massive difference between having a coin, and a container as far as surface area goes. So not necessarily a bad idea, I would just want to be very sure on my math before relying on it. And in the woods, parasites are my main concern, bacteria second, not to say that's always the case, or that I even know what I'm talking about.
I've heard the coin in the milk thing before, no idea if it holds true, I also know people had a much higher tolerance for slightly spoiled milk back then. Also, If you have a cow, its fresh milk everyday, so I'm a bit confused as to where everyone was getting their milk from if not enroute? Not saying its not true, it just doesn't seem like it would be a concern. in principal it probably does work. Its like these bags I have to store open wine in. They claim to keep wine good for three weeks. Damned if a bottle lasts three days around here!
Click to expand...
 
gadgetgeek said:
seem to recall he was talking in the several hundred liters of use. Not that it makes much a difference, one anecdote is not data.
Click to expand...

Ah gotcha. Yea as cougar Allen asked, if you don't back flush it once in a while I'm sure they'd cease up.
 
I think we are on the same page there Phoynix, More tools and info are always better. Id be interesting in info in silver killing cysts, that would be really good to know.

I like to flesh out ideas here in a way that helps those who might be finding the info later down the line, since these come up in searches. Since a lot of the silver and copper info I found on the first few google pages was a lot of woo-woo, I wanted to make sure I mentioned that. Not that you were going in that direction, but to make sure that people aren't looking at these as a cure all. (one way to figure out the hardcore preppers who don't do good research? a lot of them are blue from the colloidal silver!)

So like I said, I think we are actually in agreement pretty much. Sometimes its hard to figure out intention from writing, and that's mostly my poor thought forming.
 
There's a reason we shifted from colloidal silver in medicine. We now have more effective and efficient means for both food storage and disinfection
 
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