Water-proof matches

golok

golok

Joined
Oct 20, 2000
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I just came back from a DIY supermarket. And there were some boxes of water-proof matches sold.

Are these water-proof matches really useful when there are lighters of all shapes and sizes?

I reckon a person can keep a few of such matches in his hollow-handled survival knife but apart from that, do people really use these matches when there are other easier and more practical alternatives?
 
Golok,

I plan using a concept I call "forgetable redundancy". I have duplicate supplies stashed away in likely places awaiting the day that the main item that I brought with me fails. This is easy to do with firemakers. I always have a regular yellow Bic lighter on hand, another in the pocket of my canteen cover, another under a rubber sleeve on the sheath of my knife. I also keep a few waterproof matches in various places. They are small, weigh nothing, and make fire, it's a no brainer.

Matches are a good back-up fire source. The disadvantage is that they blow out, get wet, and are too few in number. Always have a Bic lighter or two in your kit. Keep them separate, one in the pack one in the pocket, so if you loose your pack overboard you will have the means to make fire. Mac
 
Instead of buying their waterproof matches, I use strike anywhere matches and coat them in candle wax. I use my thumb to scrape some of the wax off of the head and strike anywhere handy.

I agree with carrying backup gear for items like fire, water purification, knives and so on.
 
I agree that you should always have fire redundancy...

With that being said, matches, even the NATO waterproof type are never part of my arsenal. I find matches too unreliable. In heavy rain and wind, lighting a fire can be quite an adventure in itself. Using matches makes it even tougher... My main light is a butane micro torch (original Blazer PB-207). My backup is a cheap fire steel. Once you get the hang of a fire steel, you really appreciate it. It's easier to use than you might think, it's waterproof and lasts a long time. Good tinder is the key with a fire steel. I use the cheapest of them all, the Coghlan's flint match. For less than $2.00, you get the flint match and 8 pieces of tinder. I can usually ignite the tinder within two strokes of the flint match, and it burns for about a minute. If you ever go for the Coghlan's, you'll notice something funny. The striker is screwed in a sealed compartment and there's a wick on the striker. The instructions don't mention anything about it, but after doing some research, I discovered that you can fill the compartment with lighter fluid. The striker then becomes a real match - when you strike it on the flint, the wick ignites, making fire starting even easier. I found that on mine, the fluid doesn't dry up and it works great.

With all that being said, I've never had to actually rely on the the flint match, except to show off. The blazer is quite a fire starter! I've been toting mine for over 6 years and it's never failed me yet!

Guy
 
The REI Storm matches are very impressive for adverse conditions. Disadvaantage is you have to have the striker. But they'll burn in wind or rain and keep on burning.

Phil
 
Lighters are fine unless it gets really cold out. If you don't have your butane lighter next to your body to keep it warm, it won't light when you need it most.

In a Survival situation where you have gotten wet in winter, a blast match, magnesium bar, or firepiston can save your life. Cheap insurance on a keyring.
 
I like the nato lifeboat style matches in the waterproof container since they are absolutely waterproof. They can also be bundled to create a smaller starter fire, with the rest of the match used as tinder. I think of them as a quick and easy waterproof source of fire for signalling, really cold conditions, etc. I also carry a P-60C, keyring flint and steel, as well as a butane Glow in the dark windmill in my pocket. But dry matched that start right off are another tool. You can't have enough fire starting methods, or ammo, for that matter.
 
ON Frugal's there was a long discussion re methods of waterproofing strike anywhere matches. The general concensus was that the oldfashioned wax covering method resulted in a high failure rate even within 6 months, especially with newer parafin. There was a side discussion on "recent" changes in generic parafin's composition that seems to make it even more unsuitable for match dipping than it used to be.

The alternative supported by multiple posters was clear nail polish covering the entire matches' surface. This requred two dips, one for each end, overlapping in the middle to completely seal the stick and prevent the wicking of water. Apparently more than one batch of these was tested and survived a 30 day complete water immersion with zero ignition failures.
 
I was involved in youth survival training over the weekend. Presented with the problem and with the rules limiting them to ten "things" from a much larger number, virtually every group selected a butane lighter or mini-torch as their fire-starting tool -- in preference to matches, artificial flints, and other more "primitive" choices. Only one group knew about the temperature problem with butane. It was 23 f. Good that the weakness of butane was mentioned here.
 
People with gas furnaces (which are rare in this area) have problems with the LPG not vaporising fast enough to run the furnace at about -40F to -50F with an above ground tank. My underground tank easily runs the stove at -40F.

I will test a regular bbq tank and a butane lighter next time we have a cold snap and report back here. I expect a butane lighter would still work at -20F without being warmed.
 
Anomad, your expectations are going to take a hit.

Butane is not LPG. Butane vaporizes at 31 f and above. Isobutane, used in some premium stove cartridges, vaporizes at 11 f and above. The first won't work at 30 f, as I saw (again) last Saturday. Isobutane, which you won't find in "bic" types, won't work at 10 F.

Now propane is another matter. It vaporizes at -43 f. I don't know about liquified methane.

Nothing like seeing the sparks fly and no flame to make science "real." But have some matches on hand.:)
 
Originally posted by Thomas Linton
Anomad, your expectations are going to take a hit.

Butane is not LPG. Butane vaporizes at 31 f and above. Isobutane, used in some premium stove cartridges, vaporizes at 11 f and above. The first won't work at 30 f, as I saw (again) last Saturday. Isobutane, which you won't find in "bic" types, won't work at 10 F.

Now propane is another matter. It vaporizes at -43 f. I don't know about liquified methane.

Nothing like seeing the sparks fly and no flame to make science "real." But have some matches on hand.:)
Click to expand...

Yah, I knew lpg and propane are a few carbons off of each other, not the same, I think butane has three carbons and propane has 4? no, other way around, butane 4, propane 3....yah I remember chemistry.

I tested tonight, had a cheapo (scripto?) lighter in my camper all winter. It was -15 this morning and -2 when I went out to do my little experiment. Initially the lighter did not work, but I slid the adjuster all the way to +, shook it a couple times, and it fired up. I was careful only to touch it with my fingertips and not warm it up. Perhaps this is a propane lighter? I'll stick a Bic out there too. Maybe the agitation gives you a few degrees off the boiling point?

The propane stove fired right up, although the flame was a little weak.

I have a source of methane, but I am not interested in testing its ignition potential in any weather......much less cold.

edited to say: got my celsius and Farenheit mixed up.
 
Pure propane requires quite thick-walled metal containers. In 20 propane/80 butane mixes, the pressure is less so thin metal can be used, but the propane burns off first in cold weather, leaving unvaporized butane that will not burn. Your fingertips are probably 60 f warmer than butane at 30 f. You only need to get it to 31 f to get a weak flame. Keep experimenting.
 
I had a strong flame and a barely touched the lighter.
I didn't try to keep the flame burning very long, but that is probably true that I was burning off the short carbons.

But still, if it works this easily at -2F, then I am fine carrying one in my pack. When it gets cold again I will do a real test.
 
Even if the butane won't vaporize under fridged conditions I would hope your body is still somewhere in the mid 90's and able to warm up the lighter. If you are too cold to warm up a lighter you don't need a fire anymore!

Seriously, If I'm going to be outside in that kind of cold I'm going to have multiple fire starters stashed away and tinder to make life easy on me. Mac
 
Originally posted by grommit
The alternative supported by multiple posters was clear nail polish covering the entire matches' surface. This requred two dips, one for each end, overlapping in the middle to completely seal the stick and prevent the wicking of water. Apparently more than one batch of these was tested and survived a 30 day complete water immersion with zero ignition failures.
Click to expand...

What do you think they use on the NATO or hurricane matches?

They use the same thing as clear nail polish..all it is is lacqure (sp).

I'm glad to hear the discussion on butane lighters. the plain old ZIPPO type lighter is another option, if you run out of fuel, you still have the flint to start charcloth or fine tinder with.

I usually have 3 different ways to start a fire on me.

A waterproof matchsafe with strike anywhere matches (which are actually banned from sale in NY state) prepared with the nail polish trick.

Strikeforce firesteel

A 3.95 re-fillable butane torch (yeah the type the crackheads use)

I also carry a waterproof tinder kit (Made out of an old british lavender soap tin) with the following items. Charcloth that I make, birchbark, and a beeswax candlestub, and a small $2.00 magnafying glass, and a steel striker and large musket flint.
 
Originally posted by Adirondack1

I'm glad to hear the discussion on butane lighters. the plain old ZIPPO type lighter is another option, if you run out of fuel, you still have the flint to start charcloth or fine tinder with.
Click to expand...


Now I'll have to fill up my zippo and make it a 3 way test.
 
For some good comments in this I suggest a visit to:

http://www.equipped.org

Edited to add:

Follow the Gear & Equipment link on the left of the page, and see the pages under: Fire - A Survivor´s Best Friend
 
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