water quench

Deweyknives

Deweyknives

Joined
Nov 29, 2006
Messages
1,097
For those of you that water quench 1095, what temp water? Room temp? Warm, cold, hot? :confused: Thought I'd try one [with water] but unsure where to start with the least chance of "PING".:)

Thanks!
 
Water or brine quenching seems to be a touchy subject.

But here goes.......(this is what works for me). I heat my blades after a 220 belt grind 3 times to non-magnetic. Each time in I let it cool to black heat and go back in. It may be coincidence but I havn't lost a blade since I started heating tang first. I keep the tongs about 1" back from the tip and keep the tip just inside the door. Watch as the color creeps past the tongs to the tip. On the last go, use the tongs on the tang and keep the blade moving till color evens out on the entire blade. Check for non-magnetic and dunk straight into the quench (warm brine). No sideways motion, just up and down. Go straight to temper. The whole process took longer to write (for me) than actually doing it. I've been lucky, only one loss since last year,out of 8 or 9 blades. Most were under 5" long and 3/16" or 1/8" stock flat grinds.

Just do it and be prepared for some dissapointments. It's the best way to learn. Keep a notebook with you so you can keep track of everything you might have screwed up. I used to read mine a couple of days after a bad quench and usually a light would come on. Keep the oil ready just in case you can't stand the heat....Are you still awake???::yawn::yawn:
 
Wow, only 1 broke out of 9 is very good :thumbup: RUJOCO sounds like he knows the brine quench, my odds haven't been nearly that good. One thing that will ping your blade are course belt scratches. Make sure you also smooth out the edge (the cutting edge) that was profiled prior to grinding you bevels. Even a small course grit scratch can become a stress riser that will inevitably end up as a crack, post quench. I've been leaving just a bit more meat on the blades that I've sucessfully brine quenched too.
 
Finish has an affect, but I personally feel that time/temp is always the key. It really is with any type of heat-treat... but it hits home even harder with water.

The one thing I can recommend on finish is to get all of your "sanding striations" going lengthwise with the blade... at least on the cutting edge. I have water quenched a good many blades SUCCESSFULLY with a 50X finish... hence my comment about time/temp being the real big factor.

I spent about a year and a half figuring out water quenching, and broke something like 50 blades in the process.

Having a salt bath and/or a heat-treat oven eliminates a lot of variables that will bite you.

I remember Leon and Hiroko Kapp (authors of The Craft of the Japanese Sword ) telling me that a Japanese swordsmith with a 70% success rate is considered VERY good.

Also, interupt the quench. My best success in hunter and bowie size blades was this

<> submerge in water for a count of 2-3

<> out of water for 2 count

<> back into water for 3 count

<> back out for 2-3 count

<> then I'd stick it in oil for a few seconds and then rush it into the tempering cycle IMMEDIATELY.

I had blades literally rip apart while I was standing there looking at them post water quench.

You'll get some crazy hamon activity... But with Park's #50 available now, I really have a hard time telling anybody to try water unless they just want to explore/experiment for the sake of doing so (which is fun, for sure!) :)
 
Cool,thanks for the input. I've quenched 1095 in a lot of stuff but never tried water because of the shock factor and the risk of losing a blade.But I've gotta try it.:D Looking for that hamon activity w/o messin with clay [& maximum hardness]. Is the water temperature as critical as oil temp when doing oil quench?
 
David,
I'm probably jinxing myself now. Before this past spring I only got to keep one out of three blades, but something just clicked all of a sudden. I made it a personal challenge to get it right. I also tempted fate with smaller and thinner grinds. The latest batch were 1/8" 1075 blades. The one blade that pinged was 1095, but I've been successful with all the other 1095 blades.
 
Just checked, Parks 50 is still on back order thru Darren. Been watching as I have some w-2 also.

Nick, are you talking about time/temp of heat/soak or water temp & time in & out?
 
Randy,
I never checked the temp but it feels luke warm to me. I soak a piece 1/2" x 2" about 6" long of 1018 in the forge till orange. My quench tank is a alluminum fire extinguisher that holds 3 gallons. I dunk the 1018 down to the bottom and stir.
 
Thanks Rudy, I'll start off around 120 and go from there. I have a heavy but short full tang forged from 1/4 x 1" that's still close to 1/4" at the spine. I don't have anything near fast enough for the thickness. I'll play with some chisel shape ground stock in similar thickness first, but this gives me a place to start. Thanks to all!! :)
 
For what it's worth, I have a heat treating book by the Carpenter Steel Co. that recommends a brine mixture of 3/4 # of rock salt per gallon of water. Use between 60 & 90 degrees F. This is a more even quench than plain H2O. I've had good success with this on both W-1 and 1095.
 
Thanks Kieth. That's a lot cooler than I would expect,room temperature range. I'll keep this in mind as I 'play'.:D Thanks!!
 
A spring maker helped me make my first knife and he quenched in plain old tap water ,heated the blade cherry red ,quenched for a fast 5 count removed the blade and scrapped the scale away with course emery paper if it turned blue it went back in the water for another 5 count out and repeate the emery ,back in the water out and watched it turn a straw colour and said it was done ,I still have that old skinner a its done a lot of work over the years,I still use the same method making chisels, punches and once in a while a 5160 blade ,touch wood no cracks so far , but much easer using quenching oil.
 
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